<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Almost all city jurisdictions in the North Bay Area are currently requiring the fire access walkways. So we have definitely had to scale back a few of our system sizes to accommodate the walkways, and one project even cancelled when they realized they couldn't fit the system size that they wanted. One of the more difficult jurisdictions, Napa City, requires walkways on both sides of the roof and along the top. <br> Also, to clarify a statement that made earlier, regarding the gap with Prosolar's TileTrac system, the mid clip is 5/8" wide. This is 3/8" thinner than the Unirac mid-clip, which is 1". This results in a 3" savings across an 8 module array.<br><div> </div>Nick Soleil<br>Project Manager<br>Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC<br>PO Box
657<br>Petaluma, CA 94953<br>Cell: 707-321-2937<br>Office: 707-789-9537<br>Fax: 707-769-9037<div><br></div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Mick Abraham <mick@abrahamsolar.com><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thu, August 26, 2010 5:53:31 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Tight roof layout questions: edge walkway requirements & "small gap" hardware options<br></font><br>
<meta http-equiv="x-dns-prefetch-control" content="off">The Wrench List participants have again responded with aplomb. Thanks to all for the dozen or so replies. My takeaway from this is that I need to send my roof layouts to the nearby fire department...it's another "authority having jurisdiction" situation.<div>
<br></div><div>I received the below mail "off list" from a fire captain in San Jose. He cannot post to the List so he asked me to post on his behalf. Moderator Michael approved, so Matt Paiss' remarks are copied below. </div>
<div>
<br></div><div>Jolliness, </div><div>Mick Abraham, Proprietor </div><div><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.abrahamsolar.com">www.abrahamsolar.com</a></div><div>Voice: 970-731-4675<br>
<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
Mick,</blockquote><span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12.5px; border-collapse: collapse;"><blockquote><span style="font-size: 12.5px;">I wanted to reply to your post. As a firefighter, and an instructor of PV safety for the fire service like Dan Fink, I would like to take a moment to expand on what Dan was eluding to. Firefighters will not always look at an edge-to-edge array and decide to "Let it burn" just based on the array size. We will take into account the size of the fire, the involvement of the actual structural members, and the potential life risk within the structure before any tactical strategy is implemented. I have written off buildings just based on wind, or available water supply.</span></blockquote>
<blockquote><span style="font-size: 12.5px;">What a setback (the term being used for walkways) allows is primarily for access to a roof, or rapid egress off a roof when the fire gets out of control, not necessarily for cutting a hole. I teach firefighters to vent on the other side of the ridge from the array. There is no time to remove modules, and while micro-inverters definitely address the safety issues of a 600vdc string, they do not address access or egress. I am not going to recommend that ANY firefighter tear off a module to vent a roof because he "thinks" a micro-inverter is present.</span></blockquote>
<blockquote><span style="font-size: 12.5px;">I realize that these new codes are more restrictive, but even wind load zones recommend against edge-to-edge installs. There will be some latitude in the fire codes for setbacks, so I recommend building a good relationship with your local AHJ's. One way of doing this is by demonstrating safe, high quality installs. I have seen too many wire-ties holding up PV wire that will be rubbing against comp shingles for a decade. How confident are you that that will not be a problem?</span></blockquote>
<blockquote><span style="font-size: 12.5px;">Regards,</span></blockquote><blockquote>Matt Paiss</blockquote><div><blockquote><span style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium;">Matthew Paiss,<span> Fire </span>Captain</span></blockquote>
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<blockquote>San Jose Fire Department</blockquote><blockquote>170 W. San Carlos St.</blockquote><blockquote>San Jose, CA 95113</blockquote><blockquote>(831) 566-3057 cell</blockquote></div></span></div></span></div></span></div>
</span></div></span></div></span></div></font></div></span></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 12:45 AM, Philip Boutelle <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:philboutelle@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:philboutelle@gmail.com">philboutelle@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">Just to clarify what is and isn't law in California: <div>the<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://osfm.fire.ca.gov/pdf/reports/solarphotovoltaicguideline.pdf"> final draft guidelines developed and adopted by Cal Fire</a> are guidelines, not law, unless the local fire/AHJ has adopted them or parts of them into local ordinances. I have heard that in Southern Cal, those guidelines have been adopted all over the place already, but not so in the rest of the state.... yet. I think the guideline was officially incorporated into the next NEC/NFPA cycle, so it will be law pretty soon. Bill Brooks could probably confirm here on future adoption.</div>
<div>Not that any of this helps your Atlanta install....</div><div><br></div><div>-Phil Boutelle</div><div>Real Goods Solar <br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div></div><div>On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Max Balchowsky <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:max@seesolar.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:max@seesolar.com">max@seesolar.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div><div></div><div><div><div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">Mick, here in California the fire department in the various agencies has the final say on clearances. There is a very clear cut standard in place for the state, but we have been successful a few times in getting allowances to vary due to various site conditions. A call to the local AHJ is the place to start. In the early days of our installations (mid 1990's) we used power strut and bolted panels directly to the rails. A lot slower but no gaps between panels. We went from there to designing our own "T" clamps. There wasn't as many choices then for mounting hardware. <br>
<div> </div><span style="font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif;">Max Balchowsky</span><br style="font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif;"><span style="font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif;">Design Engineer</span><br style="font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif;">
<span style="font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif;">SEE Systems</span><br style="font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif;"><span style="font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif;">1048 Irvine Ave Suite 217<br style="font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif;">
<span style="font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif;">Newport Beach, Ca. 92660</span></span><br style="font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif;"><span style="font-family: tahoma,new york,times,serif;">760-403-6810</span><div><br></div>
<div style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Brian Teitelbaum <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:bteitelbaum@aeesolar.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:bteitelbaum@aeesolar.com">bteitelbaum@aeesolar.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> RE-wrenches
<<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wed, August 25, 2010 11:40:04 AM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Tight roof layout questions: edge walkway requirements & "small gap" hardware options<br>
</font><div><div></div><div><br>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi Mick,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">To answer part of your post, the DPW Power Rail mid-clamps give
you a 3/8” gap between modules, and the SnapNrack mids give you a 1/2"
gap.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I doubt if that will give you much of a walkway though….</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Brian Teitelbaum</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">AEE Solar</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p>
<div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mick
Abraham<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 25, 2010 11:09 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Tight roof layout questions: edge walkway
requirements & "small gap" hardware options</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello, Team~</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I'm laying out some Sanyo modules on paper. Twelve of them
fit the roof with almost too much perfection: this would be difficult to
install as it would fill the roof "edge to edge" in both directions.
Are there consistent guidelines about the amount of roof edge which must remain
uncluttered or is this mainly driven by the amount of aggravation that the
installer is willing to tolerate? Which organizations would want to influence
such decisions in the Atlanta region? Details are: residential, new
construction, wooden truss type roof framing, finish roofing yet to be decided.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I've seen fancy photos of rooftops which are covered edge to
edge, but I suppose those are "building integrated" PV systems
instead of discrete modules mounted above the roofing material. Who decides if
those are "OK' for no walkways compared to a roof that is fully loaded
with Sanyo type modules? How are such decisions made?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I like the "top clamp" style mounts but UniRac
SolarMount rail systems need about a 1" gap from one module to the next.
Is there anyone with similar hardware that can get a grip within a smaller gap?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks in advance,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
Mick Abraham, Proprietor<br>
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.abrahamsolar.com">www.abrahamsolar.com</a><br>
<br>
Voice: 970-731-4675</p>
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