<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<title></title>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Brian,<br>
<br>
I didn't check with a voltmeter; used an outlet wiring tester. Only
one light is illuminated on the outlet tester - L1 to neutral. So
there isn't enough voltage from L1 to ground to operate a neon bulb.
Ground and neutral must be isolated by more than 100 kohms, or the L1
to ground neon bulb would operate. The GFI test button causes the
neutral to ground (error in wiring) light to illuminate, so 6 mA
through the test resistor energizes ground.<br>
<br>
Kent Osterberg<br>
Blue Mountain Solar<br>
<br>
<br>
Brian Teitelbaum wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:69FFF3377EEF8747A4FDE2CC20CD1DED013ADA81509C@REDEXCH.aeesolar.local"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; ">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:Wingdings;
panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
color:black;}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
-->
</style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Kent,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Thanks
for that info.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Have
you tested for voltage between the L1 and ground while the
generator is running, or just tested for continuity between neutral and
ground
when not running?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I
wonder how much Honda paid the City of LA for that sticker </span><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Wingdings; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">J</span><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Brian
Teitelbaum<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">AEE
Solar<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div
style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; color: windowtext;">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Kent
Osterberg<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 19, 2010 7:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] DR2424 inverters charging poorly:
three units
in two days!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Brian,<br>
<br>
I also have observed that the Honda EU1000i and EU2000i inverter
generators do
not have a neutral-ground bond. Considering that they are intended as
a
portable power system and have a three-prong plug it does seem strange
that
there is no bond. There is also no GFI protection which is normally
required for 15 and 20-amp outlets on portable generators. But then a
GFI
wouldn't work without a neutral-ground bond anyway. There is no sign
of a
UL listing, but mine has a sticker from the City of Los Angeles saying
that it
is "approved for use". <br>
<br>
Kent Osterberg<br>
Blue Mountain Solar<br>
<br>
<br>
Brian Teitelbaum wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Mick,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Raising
the engine RPM will also increase your frequency above
60Hz, which could injure any electronics running in the house, so be
careful
there.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Allen,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">You
mentioned that the inverter/generators have no bond between
the neutral and the frame. I don’t see how they can get away with that
and still have a three-prong receptacle on the unit. Since these are
designed
to be portable gennies, they represent a complete power system, able to
directly run loads, and therefore must have a bond. Maybe they don’t
have
any kind of over-current protection on them, and if there is no breaker
to
trip, the bond is not needed, and they can get away with that. I
haven’t
had a chance to play with any of those enough to look that closely. Are
you
sure that there is no bond? If so, then this makes them ideal for small
off-grid back-up gennies, on top of the many plusses I knew about.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Brian
Teitelbaum</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">AEE
Solar</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div
style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";"> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mick Abraham<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 19, 2010 5:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com">Allan@positiveenergysolar.com</a>;
RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] DR2424 inverters charging poorly:
three units
in two days!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I knew Allan S. & Brian T. would be among
the first to
chime in with helpful observations. My recollection, however, was that
prior
efforts with portable generators had worked OK with DR sets...and I
know of one
setup like that which is working OK in my home county for sure. (That's
a portable
with fairly big wattage rating, however.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> I increased the engine RPM on that newly
repaired
generator but I felt creepy around 125 volts per leg. No more
fireworks,
please, but should I tweak it up faster?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">So...Allan is saying that he suspects these DR
units are
operating "normally" and therefore could not be helped by a repair. I
look forward to receiving additional posts on this topic. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">****************************************<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Brian T's point (about the neutral usually being
bonded to
metal frame on portable generators) is well taken. I tried to buzz it
out with
my continuity meter and read "open" between genset neutral &
metal chassis. This was at the end of some hot & hectic overwork,
however,
so maybe I screwed up on that test...loose meter cable or sketchy
switch
position on the meter, maybe. I will test that again next time. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Although it's a portable genset of fairly low
price, I think
it has some fancy electronic ground fault interrupter or maybe even
electronic
ground switching. Perhaps that's why it wouldn't buzz out when the
engine was
off. When the "green wire" on the twist lock power cord was connected
to the metal of the Power Panel System--as seems quite reasonable--the
generator's
voltmeter would drop to zero as soon as the twist lock plug was
inserted.
That's when they called me...to boldly go where no normal, sane
electrician
ever would. I loosened off that green wire from the Power Panel and all
looked
well. I should have stopped there. The manual for the generator was no
help at
all. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Three poorly charging inverters in two
days...plus one Big
Bang...that was not one of my better weeks! <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><br clear="all">
Mick Abraham, Proprietor<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.abrahamsolar.com">www.abrahamsolar.com</a><br>
<br>
Voice: 970-731-4675<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 6:00 PM, Allan Sindelar
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:allan@positiveenergysolar.com">allan@positiveenergysolar.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;">Mick,<br>
You have missed one fundamental point: The DR (and earlier Trace
mod-square series)
gulp only the peak of the AC supply waveform when charging. They need
164V AC
at the peak of the waveform at rated charging load to supply full rated
DC
current. A small dip in AC peak voltage results in a disproportionate
loss of
DC charging current. You identified the source of the problem when you
identified the gennies as portable units. Cheap generators provide a
120V AC
RMS voltage, but the waveform is flat, with a low peak, especially
under load.
This is described somewhere in the DR manuals, I think.<br>
<br>
The best solutions we have found are the inverter/generators, from
Honda,
Yamaha, and now others. Perfectly synthesized sine waveforms and good
DR
performance.<br>
<br>
Cheap generators are no bargain.<br>
Allan<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Allan Sindelar</b><span
style="font-size: 10pt;"><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com"
target="_blank">Allan@positiveenergysolar.com</a><br>
NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer<br>
EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
<b>Positive Energy, Inc.</b><br>
3201 Calle Marie<br>
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507<br>
<b>505 424-1112</b><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/"
target="_blank">www.positiveenergysolar.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
On 8/19/2010 5:48 PM, Mick Abraham wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Greetings, Mechanics~ Please review my problem
du semaine
and chime in if you are so inspired. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">My prior experience with the DR series Trace
inverters could
be summed up in two words: practically bombproof! <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">(There was one time...way back in the
day...when a barely
broken in unit stopped charging with adequate amperage,
and...thinking...there
was some screwy behavior on the LED indicators and maybe something
else. That
issue was resolved under warranty and was declared by Trace tech
support to
involve the "triacs".)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Last month I visited two customer sites right
after one
another. Site #1 has a single DR2424, 120 volts from the <b><i>portable</i></b>
generator, transferred fine...no problems...but would only deliver a
puny five
amps to the battery, regardless of tweaks to the "battery size" &
"charge rate" knobs.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Site #2...the very next day...has twin DR2424
units, similar
OK voltage from the<b><i> portable</i></b> genset, similar normal
seeming
behavior, series stacking cable in place, but a similarly puny DC
amperage
delivery to the battery. This pair was slightly higher on DC
amperage...about 7
amps per unit. Tweaks had no effect. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">********************************************************<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In fairness to Site #2, some weeks prior...the
genset had
been newly purchased and would not maintain output AC when connected to
the
inverter pair. I inherited a new set of customers when nobody else
seemed to
know what to try. I ungrounded the generator plug connection and things
took
off...and the charging amps were A-OK. Then...as a good safety minded
technician...I grounded from the metal ground lug on the frame of that
generator to the client's ground rod and the otherwise routine service
call
became much more exciting. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">BANG-I fried something in the
generator...voltage regulator,
maybe. Then I remembered why I try to never help out on equipment
purchased
elsewhere. I broke my own rule...<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">After an intense conversation with the
generator supplier,
the service guy agreed to fix the genny--"one time and never bring it
back". When it came time to re-connect the repaired generator, my new
customers wanted me to be there. I thought that would all be ho-hum so
long as
we left the frame ungrounded but then I observed the low charger
performance.
Now I suspect that something about the generator flame-out also blew
important
items in the inverter pair. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">*****************************************************<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I'm writing the Wrenches to ask:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Can anyone point to the likely problem on
these three
machines?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I probably can't fix this myself but perhaps
could be
encouraged to try...somebody on Ebay is selling "FET boards" for the
DR2424 inverter. Inspiration, anyone.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Failing a local repair, does anyone remember
the flat rates
for repairs by the authorized fix it shops?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">OR: if any List participants have a matching
inverter in
inventory...or two...or three...perhaps they could contact me off list
with
pricing, etc. Neither client is likely to have the cash for new TR-2424
inverters.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Oh, yes...if any could offer a Big Bang
theory, that would
help with my education. The neutral on that portable generator is
isolated from
ground, so the metal frame should be a non-participant in any
electrical
activity on the AC side of things. The metal frame
is...thinking...connected to
the negative of the 12v cranking battery so maybe that's a clue. The
ground rod
to which I connected is also connected to the negative of the 24v house
battery
and also is connected to AC neutral from the Trace Power Panel. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks all around. The Wrench List is the
Bomb, but with no
loud percussive effects!<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
Mick Abraham, Proprietor<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.abrahamsolar.com"
target="_blank">www.abrahamsolar.com</a><br>
<br>
Voice: 970-731-4675<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>List Address: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Options & settings:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>List-Archive: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>List rules & etiquette:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Check out participant bios:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br>
<br>
List Address: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
Options & settings:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List-Archive: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out participant bios:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="text-align: center;">
<hr align="center" size="4" width="90%">
</pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>List Address: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Options & settings:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>List-Archive: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>List rules & etiquette:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Check out participant bios:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="text-align: center;">
<hr align="center" size="4" width="90%">
</pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>No virus found in this incoming message.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Checked by AVG - <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3082 - Release Date: 08/19/10 11:35:00<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
<pre wrap="">
<hr size="4" width="90%">
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Home Power magazine
List Address: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
Options & settings:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
List-Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
List rules & etiquette:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>
Check out participant bios:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>
</pre>
<pre wrap="">
<hr size="4" width="90%">
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a>
Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3082 - Release Date: 08/19/10 11:35:00
</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>