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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Can the
Outbacks be mixed as ½ or whatever number be GT units and the rest be off grid
so they can charge off a generator or better than that make the battery
charging inverters Magnums, they give more charge for the bucks. They can feed
a load panel on their own and charge the batteries off the generator when need
be. I see no reason they could not be all hooked to the same battery bank but
it better be huge (needless to say)!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Zantrex
used to make a unit called “incharge” that I have used several
times. It hooks to an alternator and gives you 3 stage charging. They worked
quite well but I HATED setting them up. They have a set of magnetic switches in
the potting that you had to activate to adjust, in sequence or go back to the
start and do it again.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>I absolutely
hated the god forsaken things every time that I had to get near them, but if
you can deal with the adjustments they worked well. Needless to say I would
have liked knobs much better!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Later,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Bob
Ellison<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=4 color=black face=Calibri><span
style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Mick Abraham<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, August 07, 2010
7:14 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Advice
needed on upsizing a battery & grid interactive inverter stack<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks for the input, Daryl~ For now the prospect is considering
sufficient power for a big energy hog home plus outbuildings. They'll probably
get over that soon once the sticker shock sinks in. You asked, "how big a
battery bank and how big a generator?" Mick replies: the whole hog system
would need...guessing...about 500 kilowatt-hours of storage (~14,000 amp hours
at 48 volts), 70kW worth of inverter/charger, plus a lot of PV. A 48 volt
generator seems not best because that would involve over 1,000 amps coming off
the machine. Maybe multiple DC generators would be worth consideration. I see
why you are pointing in that direction, Daryl, because if not for the generator
problem the Outback GT system can go large.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Finding a 48 volt generator line with proper end of charge regulation
is another challenge. Can any List member provide feedback on the Canadian mfr,
Mechron?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Much appreciated, <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br clear=all>
Mick Abraham, Proprietor<br>
<a href="http://www.abrahamsolar.com">www.abrahamsolar.com</a><br>
<br>
Voice: 970-731-4675<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Darryl Thayer <<a
href="mailto:daryl_solar@yahoo.com">daryl_solar@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I have a functioning Outback system of 12 inverters,
the original design was for 15 inverters. My system can sell up to 40 kW to
the grid and I have seen pictures of systems up to 25 inverters. How
big a battery bank and how big a generator? Realistically you may not
want to charge over C/10 Have you considered a 48 volt
generator? <br>
<br>
Daryl <br>
<br>
--- On <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Fri, 8/6/10, Mick Abraham <i><span
style='font-style:italic'><<a href="mailto:mick@abrahamsolar.com"
target="_blank">mick@abrahamsolar.com</a>></span></i></span></b> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
From: Mick Abraham <<a href="mailto:mick@abrahamsolar.com" target="_blank">mick@abrahamsolar.com</a>><br>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Advice needed on upsizing a battery & grid
interactive inverter stack<br>
To: "RE-wrenches" <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
Date: Friday, August 6, 2010, 6:17 PM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Yo, Mechanics~<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>A client is considering a "biggest ever for
me" battery based power system. They will probably scale down their
ambitions once the cost realities settle in but for now they've asked me to
look for battery based inverter systems which can scale bigger than a triple
stack of Xantrex XW6048 inverters. Your advice would be welcomed. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>* The system must be split phase 120/240, not 3
phase. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>* Outback seems "out" because the inverter
group should handle backup battery recharge using grid or generator AC...and
we also want to sell excess PV power to the grid.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>* No cobbled together AC coupled systems would be
considered without a convincing way to feather the end of charge on the battery
when the grid is down...float & all. I don't want to go back to the days
of clunky, coarse battery "end of charge" care. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>* Sunny Island/Sunny Boy is in contention but I'm
not keen on having to stack in pairs to maintain the 120/240 three wire architecture.
A single Sunny Island failure would take down two of the yellow boxes. What
is the limit on stack-ability for Sunny Island?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>* A battery sales rep suggested Satcon brand but I
think that's bogus advice. Satcon is pure grid intertie only, right?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>***********************************************<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>So...there is your challenge de la semaine
(challenge of the week). Who builds an inverter system with Xantrex XW-like
features only bigger...much bigger? OR: who could supply the
"Mother of Sunny Island/Sunny Boy" system? Replies would be
welcomed on the List or off.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>The Wrench List is the Bomb!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Mick Abraham, Proprietor<br>
<a href="http://www.abrahamsolar.com" target="_blank">www.abrahamsolar.com</a><br>
<br>
Voice: 970-731-4675<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>-----Inline Attachment
Follows-----<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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