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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Sorry all… I was out on a little three day vacation. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I usually program return amps setting to usually 2-3% of the
overall battery bank capacity. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Usually and depending on the battery type or manufacure when the
current passing from the charger to the battery drops to this Return amp
setting technically the batteries are charged. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Because batteries are technically buckets of water with holes in
them, they will never stop pulling current, nor will they never be fully
charged. What happens is they start to draw a minimum of charge current from
the charger. This “Maintenance current” usually is between 2,3,4,5 percent of
the overall battery bank capasity. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>With the Return amps setting you can get the batteries close to
that charged setting. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Steve Higgins. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Sr Application Engineering Mgr<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Sub-Saharan Africa Business Dev Mgr. </span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Outback Power Systems. </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>19009 62nd Ave Ne </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Arlington Wa 98223</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>360-618-4313</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dana<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, July 22, 2010 8:37 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'RE-wrenches'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] RETURN AMP SETTING<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"'>Chris
Freitas of Outback can you chime in here?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"'>Thanks,
Dana Orzel<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"'>Great
Solar Works, Inc<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"'>E -
dana@solarwork.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"'>V -
970.626.5253<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"'>F -
970.626.4140<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"'>C -
970.209.4076<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"'>web
- www.solarwork.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"'>Responsible
Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Darryl
Thayer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 21, 2010 8:35 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] RETURN AMP SETTING<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width=624
style='width:6.5in;margin-left:.5in'>
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<td valign=top style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal>That is a good question, I have not an answer, but of
course it should be based on the amp hour of the battery bank, absorb
charging voltage, and of course the charging source in the case of
generators. Following Ron's advise start at C/5 for SOC less than 50%
then C/10 till about 70% SOC and then C/15 till 80% then C/20 to 90 %. the
problem we have no way to set these values, Perhaps Ron could give is a
routine? The closet to SOC charging is the Outback and then the Magnum
but both miss the goal. <br>
<br>
--- On <b>Wed, 7/21/10, Dana <i><dana@solarwork.com></i></b> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
From: Dana <dana@solarwork.com><br>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] RETURN AMP SETTING<br>
To: "'RE-wrenches'" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org><br>
Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 5:54 PM<o:p></o:p></p>
<div id=yiv1478977914>
<div>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'>As the % of full charge is related to the of degree
absorption & gravity [the denser & more charged acid descending, and
lighter acid rising] @ what point in the absorption would be prudent to stop
charging?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'>I used to cut off the charge on the Trace SW series at
12 “return amps”, VS. the factory default I think was at 5 amps. This
has & continues to work well but I never had anyone really answer this
function clearly.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'>Is there a battery manufacturer or wrench that
would care to comment on the: </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'>The minimum “Return” amps to disconnect for a “full”
charge?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'>OR</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'>The time required per 100 AHR after reaching the
Absorption point setting for the mix to occur?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'>I realize that battery construction, battery condition,
age and temperature and the current power usage will also play into this
factor and it may not be a simple answer.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Dana
Orzel</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Great
Solar Works, Inc</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>E
- dana@solarwork.com</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>V
- 970.626.5253</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>F
- 970.626.4140</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>C
- 970.209.4076</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>web
- www.solarwork.com</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Responsible
Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mark
Frye<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 21, 2010 4:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Allan@positiveenergysolar.com; 'RE-wrenches'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Propane Generator, Dual Outback Inverters</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Allen,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Can I
infer that if you are shutting off the gen before charge rates drop in
absorption that you are running only briefly in the absorb phase? Or do your
charge currents remain high through out an extended absortion phase?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Perhaps
you have plenty of PV which you rely upon to bring the batteries up through
the absorption phase, once the gen is shut off.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>I would
be interest to learn more about your approach to this.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Mark Frye</span>
<br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Berkeley
Solar Electric Systems</span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>303 Redbud
Way</span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Nevada
City, CA 95959</span> <br>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>(530)
401-8024</span> <br>
<a href="http://www.berkeleysolar.com/" target="_blank"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>www.berkeleysolar.com</span></a><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
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<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
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<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:
0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Allan
Sindelar<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 21, 2010 3:17 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Propane Generator, Dual Outback Inverters</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:
0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>The Onan RS20000 shown in the
generators article in HP 131 page 98 has performed flawlessly as backup
support to an Outback quad-stack of VFX3648s. Differences, however, are that
this 20kW gennie charges four inverters, rather than two; the elevation is
6,600 feet for about a 20% output deration; there are no huge loads above
charging draw; and the client is aware enough to shut it off before
absorption reduces the charge rate - all different conditions than you have
described, as the gennie is usually fully loaded and running in balance.<br>
<br>
Darryl is right about the amount of words necessary.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=yiv1478977914msonormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span
class=yiv1478977914il><b>Allan</b></span><b> Sindelar</b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'><br>
<a href="/mc/compose?to=Allan@positiveenergysolar.com" target="_blank"><span
class=yiv1478977914il>Allan</span>@positiveenergysolar.com</a><br>
NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer<br>
EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
<b>Positive Energy, Inc.</b><br>
3201 Calle Marie<br>
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507<br>
<b>505 424-1112</b><br>
<a href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/" target="_blank">www.positiveenergysolar.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>No
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