<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hi Dana;<div><br></div><div>I'd say that's a bit overkill for today's market. That money could be making more power, not just preventing losses. <div><div>Definitely a law of diminishing returns on wire sizing. </div><div>If you allocated 50% of the budget to wire, and 50% to PV, your losses would be very low, (immeasurable but unfortunately still there) but your total system production vs. the money spent would be terrible.</div><div>I'm only using this ridiculous example to show, that at some point, we all spend money on more PV, not bigger wire. </div><div>I pick that point based on sound economic analysis, not some over applied rule of thumb. As copper costs rise, and PV gets cheaper, that point moves up. </div><div>If copper was still at 20th century prices, and PV were $10/ watt, your 1% might very well be the right answer.</div><div><br></div><div>( this is also the point where Bob-O starts hammering me, so I'd better run. ☹☺)</div><div><br></div><div><div><div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div>R. Walters</div><div><a href="mailto:ray@solarray.com">ray@solarray.com</a></div><div>Solar Engineer</div><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span>
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<br><div><div>On Jul 22, 2010, at 2:58 PM, Dana wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">For array to power center or Inverter; I use 125% of amps @ max power and run the wire calculations at 1% VD.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">We have set Fluke meters on clamped on @ both ends and talked with radios & compared the readings. We have not seen any noticeable VD down to .00vdc.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">Perhaps overkill?<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">Thanks, Dana Orzel<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">Great Solar Works, Inc<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">E -<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">dana@solarwork.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">V - 970.626.5253<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">F - 970.626.4140<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">C - 970.209.4076<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">web -<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.solarwork.com/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.solarwork.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div style="border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Michael Kelly<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, July 22, 2010 2:13 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'RE-wrenches'<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [RE-wrenches] calculating DC voltage drop<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Hi All,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">I agree with Ray with the exception that I use Imp*1.25 in my calculations. I developed a simple spreadsheet for either fixed conductor size or for fixed voltage drop. You can feel free to use it by downloading here:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.mechanicalmike.com/solar/DC_Voltage_Drop_Calculations_Template_04_20_2010.xltx" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.mechanicalmike.com/solar/DC_Voltage_Drop_Calculations_Template_04_20_2010.xltx</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">- Mike<o:p></o:p></span></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">---<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Michael Kelly<br>Applications Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ™<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span><image001.jpg></span><br>Solectria Renewables, LLC<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">360 Merrimack St.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Building 9, Floor 2<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Lawrence, MA 01843<br>Phone: 978-683-9700 ext. 167<br>Fax: 978-683-9702<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><a href="mailto:mike@solren.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">mike@solren.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><a href="http://www.solren.com/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.solren.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div style="border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; "><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>R Ray Walters<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, July 22, 2010 3:45 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [RE-wrenches] calculating DC voltage drop<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">I use actual operating current, without multipliers. I also use actual temperatures, not the worst case temperatures that many use.<o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">I created a spread sheet that uses the NEC adjustments for wire temperature, (see NEC chapter 9, table 8, FPN 2)<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">It makes quite a difference!<o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">Volt drop and the accompanying loss of energy production needs to be looked at realistically under normal operating conditions. Adding worst case multipliers is necessary for sizing cables and breakers for safety, but it isn't appropriate when calculating energy losses. We shouldn't do an energy loss analysis for a situation that might never occur, or for only a very small % of the time. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">A correct analysis will reflect actual losses over the lifetime of the system, so that an informed economic decision can be made. Especially on larger systems with long runs, its worth it to you and the client to use real world numbers, not blind over sizing.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">I got into this over a decade ago, when I noticed that actual measured volt drop was much less than calculated, now my calculations match real measurements. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; ">R. Walters<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; "><a href="mailto:ray@solarray.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">ray@solarray.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; ">Solar Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; ">On Jul 22, 2010, at 1:22 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">When calculating the voltage drop from a PV array to the inverter, what’s the most common accepted practice? To use the Isc X 1.25 or 1.56 as the multiplier?<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">marco<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 13.5pt; "><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; ">_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br><br>List Address:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Options & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out participant bios:<br><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-top: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div></div><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">No virus found in this incoming message.<br>Checked by AVG -<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.avg.com/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.avg.com</a><br>Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3021 - Release Date: 07/22/10 00:36:00</span><o:p></o:p></p></div>_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br><br>List Address:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Options & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out participant bios:<br><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br></div></span></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div></body></html>