<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Nick;<div><br></div><div>I'm not basing this information on my own anecdotal experience, its based on cycle life data from Trojan. </div><div>This test data is done independently by the BCI (Battery Council International) </div><div>The T105 gets 750 cycles to 80% DOD, while the L16 only gets 600 cycles to 80%DOD.</div><div>Obviously, your actual results may vary. We've seen L16s last over 10 years, and several sets die in less than 5 years.</div><div>I quit selling them, because when you calculate the cost vs the amp hours and cycle life data, they're not the best deal.</div><div>I think most golf cart batteries that die early aren't watered properly. </div><div>L16s do have the advantage of holding more water, so I think that might be why folks like yourself beat the test results.</div><div><br></div><div><br><div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div>R. Walters</div><div><a href="mailto:ray@solarray.com">ray@solarray.com</a></div><div>Solar Engineer</div><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span>
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<br><div><div>On Jun 29, 2010, at 10:04 PM, Nick Soleil wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; ">Really Ray:<br> Almost all of the L-16s I've installed or serviced, mostly Trojans, lasted 7-13 years. I have only seen one one bank of L-16s die in 5 years. On the other other hand, I have seen golf cart batts, such as the T-105s last 3-7 years, with only a few making it any longer.<br><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "> </div>Nick Soleil<br>Project Manager<br>Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC<br>PO Box 657<br>Petaluma, CA 94953<br>Cell: 707-321-2937<br>Office: 707-789-9537<br>Fax: 707-769-9037<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; "><br><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt; "><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">From:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>R Ray Walters <<a href="mailto:ray@solarray.com">ray@solarray.com</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">To:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Sent:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tue, June 29, 2010 8:59:15 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Subject:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [RE-wrenches] Interstate UL-16 HC problem<br></font><br>IF those L 16s are much over 5 years old, they could be gone. L16s (of any brand) have less cycle life than a golf cart battery, just check the charts.<div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">They also don't fair very well long term in float charge.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">You can probably EQ them back to life as already mentioned, but then after 6 months to a couple of years, you'll start seeing dead cells.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">The variation in SG is already heading that way.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Do your best now, and make sure the customer knows they should start saving up for their next battery bank.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">R. Walters</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:ray@solarray.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:ray@solarray.com">ray@solarray.com</a></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Solar Engineer</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span></div><br><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">On Jun 29, 2010, at 9:16 PM, Darryl Thayer wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit; ">That is a tough one to diagnose, but I think you have some sulfation, I have used interstates and had reasonable luck. They act more like a traction battery than a RE battery. This might be a job for a desulfator or a very long slow charge. It takes a long time to get sulfur to leave the plates. I charged a set on low EQ rate for over 30+hrs to get the capacity back and the SG back up. I would not charge to vigorously as you can loosen plate material.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>I have not used the ETDA product, but have had success on a long charge.<br><br>Darryl<br><br>--- On<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>Tue, 6/29/10, Dave Palumbo<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i><<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:dave@independentpowerllc.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:dave@independentpowerllc.com">dave@independentpowerllc.com</a>></i></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px; "><br>From: Dave Palumbo <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:dave@independentpowerllc.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:dave@independentpowerllc.com">dave@independentpowerllc.com</a>><br>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Interstate UL-16 HC problem<br>To: "'RE-wrenches'" <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>Date: Tuesday, June 29, 2010, 7:58 PM<br><br><div id="yiv1480818695" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><div class="WordSection1" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Bob,</span></p><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Sulfation, I’d say. Try EDTA. Trailhead Supply. See Home Power marketplace ad for contact info.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">If it’s not sulfation then maybe it’s simply diluted electrolyte(accidental, or intentional) which would make the batteries have lower performance AH wise but should last a long time (plates hold up better in a less acidic solution). Years ago I received some Hoppecke lead acid batteries direct from Germany to make good on a bad batch of NiCADS. The Hoppecke LA’s intentionally have a max SG of 1.240. Very big cells (330lbs for a 2v cell) and evidently have a very long life, as I am using them still in my barn/shop 16 years later and they act like new despite a pathetically low charge rate. These cells are rated at 2,000 AH @ 100h rate. I am charging them with 35 amps of PV with the occasional 75 amp charge when the gen is on.</span></p><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I have never heard much good said concerning Interstate deep cycle batteries.</span></p><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Dave</span></p><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; border-top-width: 1pt; border-right-width: medium; border-bottom-width: medium; border-left-width: medium; border-top-style: solid; border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-right-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-bottom-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-left-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; "><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>bob<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, June 29, 2010 6:53 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'RE-wrenches'<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[RE-wrenches] Interstate UL-16 HC problem</span></p></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt; ">I have 2 systems that I am trying to correct that another local dealer has installed.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt; ">This one is 2 strings of (8) UL-16 HC Interstate Batteries, 16 batteries total.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt; ">We cannot get the batteries to charge over 1.225 despite discharging them and generator charging them till everything shut down.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt; ">This is a 48 volt system with a Magnum 4448 inverter.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt; ">He also has (6) 175 watt Solar World panels on a manual tracker. (spends all day tracking the sun) He is adding 2 more this summer. The controller is an MX-60.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt; ">I have moved the Magnums settings to 1600 AH battery bank size to allow for the inverter to have a longer absorb time to help it finish charging and get to a full battery.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt; ">It’s not working; we have 1 cell at 1.240 and the rest at 1.225.</span></p><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; "> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt; ">These have not been cycled hard if at all, I am going to suggest that he cycle them several more times to see if anything improves after that</span></p><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; "> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt; ">The other system has the same problem with a different inverter! So it’s not inverter related, but I am at a loss.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt; ">I have not used Interstates before and want to stay away from them in the future.</span></p><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; "> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt; ">Any other suggestions?</span></p><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; "> </span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt; ">Thanks,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt; ">Bob Ellison</span></p></div></div><br>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<br><br><div class="plainMail" style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br><br>List Address:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Options & settings:<br><span><a target="_blank" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a></span><br><br><span>List-Archive:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a target="_blank" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a></span><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out participant bios:<br><a target="_blank" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br></div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table><br>_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br><br>List Address:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Options & settings:<br><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br><span>List-Archive:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a target="_blank" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a></span><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out participant bios:<br><span><a target="_blank" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></span><br><br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br><br>List Address:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Options & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out participant bios:<br><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br></div></span></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>