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<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Sans">Ray,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Sans"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Sans"> Yes, thus my
qualification:"<EM>seems</EM> to be <EM>pretty</EM> bombproof".
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Sans"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Sans"> Also though,
a deatil I left out which would have a major longevity impact on this tank
shut-off/on set-up is that the pump supplying water to the tank only comes on
once a day (ala digital timer), thus the tank valve, seal, float, rod,
etc. are only cycled once/day. The daily water consumption draw down
is only about 15% of tank capacity, so we chose to pump water once a day.
I guess this scenario also acts as a safety for an event like the one you
described, months of pumping for naught do to failed float shaft.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Sans"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Sans">Bill</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Sans">Feather River Solar Electric<BR>4291 Nelson
St.<BR>Taylorsville, CA 95983<BR>530-284-7849/6544 fax</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ray@solarray.com href="mailto:ray@solarray.com">R Ray Walters</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 17, 2010 8:10
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] two VFX3524's
and a Franklin 3hp sub pump</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Float valves too have been problematic. Seals wear and leak
after several years, and just a couple of months ago, we had the brass shaft
that connects the float to the valve break off. In this case the tank had an
over flow that went into the septic. So nothing was damaged by the over
filling, but no one knew that was happening either. We were called to
troubleshoot a grid tie system that wasn't running the meter backwards, then
the well pump guy came out, and then finally the plumber who had done the tank
system. By then, the pump had run 24/7 at 10 gpm for a couple of months of
fresh clean well water straight into the septic. Our customer's electric bill
was in the hundreds of dollars.
<DIV>I wouldn't quite say they're bomb proof.<BR>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2">
<DIV>R. Walters</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:ray@solarray.com">ray@solarray.com</A></DIV>
<DIV>Solar Engineer</DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV><BR class=khtml-block-placeholder></DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On Jun 16, 2010, at 10:32 PM, frenergy wrote:</DIV><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: medium Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; orphans: 2; widows: 2; webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
<DIV lang=EN-US bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="blue">
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Sans">Chris,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Sans"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Sans">
I've seen a bladder tank modulate the "shut-down" process in a up-the-hill
gravity feed tank when using a (IMO) more reliable float valve rather than a
float switch. Watts model number 1250 is an example of a toilet tank
method of stopping/starting flow to a tank. With the bladder tank and
a standard issue Sq D. pressure switch (in the vicinity of the
wellhead) it seems to be a pretty bomb -proof set-up.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Sans"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Sans">Bill Battagin</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Sans"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Sans">Feather River Solar Electric<BR>4291 Nelson
St.<BR>Taylorsville, CA 95983<BR>530-284-7849/6544 fax</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Sans"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Sans"></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(228,228,228); background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial"><B>From:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A title=chris@solarwindworks.com
style="COLOR: blue" href="mailto:chris@solarwindworks.com">Chris
Worcester</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
title=Allan@positiveenergysolar.com style="COLOR: blue"
href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com">Allan@positiveenergysolar.com</A><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>;<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
title=re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org style="COLOR: blue"
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">'RE-wrenches'</A></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Wednesday, June 16, 2010 1:34
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re: [RE-wrenches] two VFX3524's
and a Franklin 3hp sub pump</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=WordSection1 style="page: WordSection1">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif">Great
ideas on load management to save the DC/AC system sizing. I haven’t spent
time researching their need for this 3hp pump or age and all, but
definitely worth looking at that side. Since it does pump to the 3000g
gravity feed tank up the hill. What’s strange is there is still a bladder
tank in the garage, possibly decommissioned when they added the gravity
system.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif">Sincerely,<BR><BR>Chris
Worcester<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif">Solar
Wind Works<BR>NABCEP Certified PV Installer<BR>Phone: 530-582-4503<BR>Fax:
530-582-4603<BR><A style="COLOR: blue"
href="http://www.solarwindworks.com/"><U>www.solarwindworks.com</U></A><BR><A
style="COLOR: blue"
href="mailto:chris@solarwindworks.com"><U>chris@solarwindworks.com</U></A><BR>"Proven
Energy Solutions"</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: Calibri, sans-serif"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: rgb(181,196,223) 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, sans-serif">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma, sans-serif"><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A style="COLOR: blue"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</A><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org]<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><B>On Behalf Of<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN></B>Allan
Sindelar<BR><B>Sent:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Tuesday, June 15, 2010 8:48
PM<BR><B>To:</B><SPAN class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
style="COLOR: blue"
href="mailto:jryago@netscape.com">jryago@netscape.com</A>;
RE-wrenches<BR><B>Subject:</B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re: [RE-wrenches] two VFX3524's
and a Franklin 3hp sub pump<O:P></O:P></SPAN></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><O:P></O:P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">Chris,<BR>We
deal with deep wells routinely.<BR><BR>Recently we installed a GTWB system
for a very enjoyable retired couple. Their needs included the goat milker,
sheep barn, two freezers and a fridge, and irrigation well pump, with the
system sized for continuous operation in the event of a long-term (i.e.
permanent) loss of the grid. This was on one acre in the suburbs south of
Albuquerque. We used an XW4548, as it was the only battery-based, 120/240,
single-inverter, grid-tie unit available currently.<BR><BR>As part of the
normal load-reduction process, we determined that the 2hp conventional
well pump could be replaced with a 1hp soft-start SQ and have adequate
head and flow for their sprinklers. Changing out the pump way more than
paid for itself in the amount of inverter capacity we didn't need.<SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR><BR>I would encourage you to
look at both of these related issues carefully as part of this situation:
could a smaller pump meet the head and flow requirements of this site, and
is a soft-start pump available? Usually, if an inverter or stack of them
can't handle a big inductive load like a conventional pump, it's because
of the starting surge. I suspect a smaller soft-start pump may be doable
in your situation.<BR>Allan<O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><SPAN
class=il><B>Allan</B></SPAN><B><SPAN
class=Apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Sindelar</B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><BR><A style="COLOR: blue"
href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com" target=_blank><SPAN
class=il><U>Allan</U></SPAN><U>@positiveenergysolar.com</U></A><BR>NABCEP
Certified Photovoltaic Installer<BR>EE98J Journeyman
Electrician<BR><B>Positive Energy, Inc.</B><BR>3201 Calle Marie<BR>Santa
Fe, New Mexico 87507<BR><B>505 424-1112</B><BR><A style="COLOR: blue"
href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/"
target=_blank><U>www.positiveenergysolar.com</U></A></SPAN><O:P></O:P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">Hello
offgrid Wrenches,<O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">I
just inherited an off grid system with one VFX3524 inverter running the
home loads, and a 17kW Guardian Generac they use for charging (through an
X-240 back into the inverter) & to run their Franklin 3hp 240 VAC well
pump, S. F. max amp 17.0 ( rated on its controller)<O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">This
is a really convoluted system as they have another 120/240 VAC Transformer
to have the inverter talk to the 240 volt signal the gen set needs to see.
Yikes.<O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">So
I am proposing to add a second inverter if it can run the well pump and
eliminate the extra transformer. This will also reduce gen set run time in
half while battery charging, a big plus with the nice 24V Hawker battery
bank, 1020 AH at the 6 hour rate.<O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">There
aren’t any other unusual large AC loads in the home, just the fridge,
washer, computer, and such. LPG for cooking, water heating, clothes
dryer.<O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif">Thanks
in advance for all ideas here!<O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">Sincerely,<BR><BR>Chris
Worcester</SPAN><O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">Solar Wind Works<BR>NABCEP Certified
PV Installer<BR>Phone: 530-582-4503<BR>Fax: 530-582-4603<BR><A
style="COLOR: blue"
href="http://www.solarwindworks.com/"><U>www.solarwindworks.com</U></A><BR><A
style="COLOR: blue"
href="mailto:chris@solarwindworks.com"><U>chris@solarwindworks.com</U></A><BR>"Proven
Energy Solutions"</SPAN><O:P></O:P></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif"><O:P></O:P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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