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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>So why is the Enphase 210 just
limited “officially” to the Sanyo line?</span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>marco<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Dana,
Marco, Wrenches,<br>
<br>
In most locations, if the interest is in maximum lifetime energy production, it
does make sense to use modules with STC power ratings significantly higher than
the inverter max power rating.<br>
<br>
This is explained in the whitepaper located at:<br>
<br>
<a
href="http://www.enphaseenergy.com/downloads/Enphase_White_Paper_Module_Rightsizing.pdf">http://www.enphaseenergy.com/downloads/Enphase_White_Paper_Module_Rightsizing.pdf</a><br>
<br>
Remember, under most real world conditions the module will not produce STC
rated power. The inverter WILL produce maximum rated power plus some
small percent to allow for the CEC max power test methods. Also, the
module will produce less power every year (under the same conditions) and the
inverter will produce its' max rated power for its' entire lifetime.<br>
<br>
By the way, this all applies to string, central, or microinverters. Of
course, micros still retain the advantages of dealing with mismatch, partial
shading/soiling, etc.<br>
<br>
Bottom line is, the "perfect" match will depend on your particular
installation.<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>See ya!<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Marv<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>707 763-4784 x7016<o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
Dana Brandt wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Something to remember is that
my simulation was for a specific location in Washington. The answer might be
different for your location and weather patterns.<br>
<br>
I agree that it seems wrong to have the inverter rating 20% less than the array
nameplate. Typically, I would consider that sort of pairing a poor design.
You're right that there will certainly be some clipping - especially with
cloud-edge effects. The real question in my mind is not whether the inverter
will ever clip the output of the array, but what's the real impact of that on
energy generation on an annual basis. This is what lead me to do the modeling
simulations which indicated the effect is negligible when taken in the context
of the total annual production. Compared to the whole year's sun, there just
isn't that much energy in high production spikes like cloud edge effects that
the inverters will clip - at least not around here. <br>
<br>
One thing to consider is that if you go with smaller modules you need more
inverters. You might compare the cost of the additional inverters to the value
of the 0.2% energy loss from clipping over the lifetime of the system. <br>
<br>
Dana<br clear=all>
<br>
<br>
Dana Brandt<br>
Ecotech Energy Systems, LLC<br>
<a href="http://www.ecotechenergy.com">www.ecotechenergy.com</a><br>
<a href="mailto:dana@ecotechenergy.com">dana@ecotechenergy.com</a><br>
360.510.0433<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 11:36 AM, Marco Mangelsdorf <<a
href="mailto:marco@pvthawaii.com">marco@pvthawaii.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I just don’t understand why going over
20 percent of module nameplate to nameplate inverter rating makes any sense.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I regularly see 120-130 percent of
nameplate amperage coming off of the array on our office due to edge of cloud.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>So I have to disagree with Dana in this
instance. I see this a bad design especially since lower output mods are
so readily available these days.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>And what’s up with the Enphase
210? Doesn’t it say on their latest compatibility list (March 2010) that
it’s only good for the Sanyo line? What’s up with that especially since I
know that one other manufacturer is signing off on using the Enphase 210 with
their 210-watt module, apparently with Enphase’s approval?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Marv—why is your Enphase 210 only listed
for use with the Sanyo line when there’s a growing number of 210+ watt mods out
there these days?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>marco</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I've
been concerned about pairing higher wattage modules (~230W) with the 190W
Enphase fearing a lot of clipping and power loss when the modules are at full
power. <br>
<br>
I did some modeling of this setup in PVSYST and found that the expected loss
from the inverter being underpowered is 0 - 0.2% annually depending on the
assumptions. The modeling was for northwestern Washington State. A fifth of a
percent seems pretty negligible to me and is easily offset by removing module
mismatch from the equation. So, I'm convinced that matching modules in the 230W
range with the 190W Enphase inverters is a good design.<br>
<br>
I recently installed 4kW of 230s with the Enphase 190s and have seen their
output as high as 199W. <br clear=all>
<br>
Dana<br>
<br>
<br>
Dana Brandt<br>
Ecotech Energy Systems, LLC<br>
<a href="http://www.ecotechenergy.com" target="_blank">www.ecotechenergy.com</a><br>
<a href="mailto:dana@ecotechenergy.com" target="_blank">dana@ecotechenergy.com</a><br>
360.510.0433<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On
Fri, May 7, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Chris Worcester <<a
href="mailto:chris@solarwindworks.com" target="_blank">chris@solarwindworks.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Do the Enphase inverters clip the output
power to their rating like other manufacturer’s? So a M190 can only put out 190
watts max? I have had this question for a bit now on system performances using
Enphase in designs during our cold spring and fall days.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Sincerely,<br>
<br>
Chris Worcester</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Solar Wind Works<br>
NABCEP Certified PV Installer<br>
Phone: 530-582-4503<br>
Fax: 530-582-4603<br>
<a href="http://www.solarwindworks.com/" target="_blank">www.solarwindworks.com</a><br>
<a href="mailto:chris@solarwindworks.com" target="_blank">chris@solarwindworks.com</a><br>
"Proven Energy Solutions"</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mark
Westbrock<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 07, 2010 10:33 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase performance</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The over-reporting of energy that Randy refers to below was
much higher than any discrepancy based on monitoring resolution. We have
a pyranometer at the site, and Enphase reported energy production as high as
38% higher that predicted from irradiance data, as well as 38% higher than the
string inverter portion of the same system. Individual microinverters
showed instantaneous power output as high as 285 W from a nominal 190 W unit.<br>
<br>
Enphase explained that there was a software glitch that was resulting in
"double counting". It took them over two months to correct this
issue, time which is lost from our experimental comparison of string vs.
microinverter. They indicated that this seemed to be an isolated
situation, but I wonder how many Enphase customers are reporting miraculous
performance from their system without verifying via another meter.<br>
<br>
Screen shot of a day's power production of 22 M190 microinverters (nominal 4180
watts AC):<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b>Error! Filename not specified.</b><br>
<br>
Mark <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div><pre>Mark Westbrock<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>NM ER-1J Journeyman Electrician<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Positive Energy, Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>office: 575-524-2030<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>cell: 575-640-2432<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="mailto:westbrock@positiveenergysolar.com" target="_blank">westbrock@positiveenergysolar.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com" target="_blank">www.positiveenergysolar.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>We definitely experienced an overstatement. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>We have a client who installed 5kW on a string inverter and
5kW on enphase and it is that side-by-side comparison that enabled us to
positively identify a problem. There was a significant overstatement of output.
We finally got a Enphase person who told us it was a software glitch. The
problem appears to be fixed. They explained to us that our problem was
isolated without giving us a detailed explanation of what happened. Since
that problem was fixed, we have seen no difference in output between a string
inverter and enphase.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='color:#1F497D'>Randy<br>
<br>
</span>Kirpal Khalsa wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>This
same issue has come up over the years for us......first with PV Powered
inverters and then noticed in Fronius as well......We have noticed in most of
our grid tied systems that are connected thru a "revenue grade meter"
for Oregon Energy Trust production reporting, that the inverter always has a
higher performance than indicated on the "utility grade meter".
We have seen the discrepency as high as 10%. Over time this adds
up to significant kWh differences. In our experience the inverter always
has the higher kWh reporting, we have attributed this to the inverter wanting
to report a good production number, to boost their efficiency claims......maybe
even more than is accurate.....I have asked PV Powered and Fronius about this
and their line is that to put a "revenue grade meter" into the
inverter would be cost prohibitive......interesting as the readily available
revenue grade meters are only $30-$60. I would gladly pay that much
extra if I didn't have to wire in an additional meter. <br>
I don't think this problem is unique to the Enphase units (i haven't installed
any of these), I think all inverters should be required to install the revenue
grade meters to give accurate reporting of actual production.
Similar to how states have a "weights and scales" accuracy
certification, energy consumption and production meters should be similarly
calibratable. <br>
<br>
-- <br>
Sunny Regards,<br>
Kirpal Khalsa<br>
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer<br>
Renewable Energy Systems<br>
<a href="http://www.oregonsolarworks.com" target="_blank">www.oregonsolarworks.com</a><br>
541-218-0201 m<br>
541-592-3958 o<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='text-align:center'>
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</pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>List Address: <a
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