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<font face="Verdana">Marco,<br>
<br>
Sorry, I missed that question in the previous e-mail.<br>
<br>
A couple of points about the compatibility list:<br>
<br>
1. We include only modules that have passed our internal math check
for compatibility over the temperature range of the inverter.<br>
<br>
2. If the module manufacturer objects to being on the compatibility
list, we will not include them.<br>
<br>
Sunpower has objected, so they are not on the list.<br>
<br>
Zhejiang Wanxiang Solar Co. Ltd is also shown as compatible with the
M210.<br>
<br>
The list is only a guideline. Any module that falls within the voltage
spec over the expected operating temperature range of the installation,
and does not exceed the inverter DC input short circuit current rating
is certainly a valid combination, and the inverter is fully warranted.
Notice that module power rating is not a factor here.<br>
<br>
I hope this helps.<br>
<br>
<br>
</font>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">See ya!
Marv
707 763-4784 x7016
</pre>
<br>
<br>
Marco Mangelsdorf wrote:
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<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">So why is
the Enphase 210 just
limited “officially” to the Sanyo line?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">marco<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family: "Verdana","sans-serif";">Dana,
Marco, Wrenches,<br>
<br>
In most locations, if the interest is in maximum lifetime energy
production, it
does make sense to use modules with STC power ratings significantly
higher than
the inverter max power rating.<br>
<br>
This is explained in the whitepaper located at:<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.enphaseenergy.com/downloads/Enphase_White_Paper_Module_Rightsizing.pdf">http://www.enphaseenergy.com/downloads/Enphase_White_Paper_Module_Rightsizing.pdf</a><br>
<br>
Remember, under most real world conditions the module will not produce
STC
rated power. The inverter WILL produce maximum rated power plus some
small percent to allow for the CEC max power test methods. Also, the
module will produce less power every year (under the same conditions)
and the
inverter will produce its' max rated power for its' entire lifetime.<br>
<br>
By the way, this all applies to string, central, or microinverters. Of
course, micros still retain the advantages of dealing with mismatch,
partial
shading/soiling, etc.<br>
<br>
Bottom line is, the "perfect" match will depend on your particular
installation.<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>See ya!<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Marv<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>707 763-4784 x7016<o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
Dana Brandt wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;">Something to
remember is that
my simulation was for a specific location in Washington. The answer
might be
different for your location and weather patterns.<br>
<br>
I agree that it seems wrong to have the inverter rating 20% less than
the array
nameplate. Typically, I would consider that sort of pairing a poor
design.
You're right that there will certainly be some clipping - especially
with
cloud-edge effects. The real question in my mind is not whether the
inverter
will ever clip the output of the array, but what's the real impact of
that on
energy generation on an annual basis. This is what lead me to do the
modeling
simulations which indicated the effect is negligible when taken in the
context
of the total annual production. Compared to the whole year's sun, there
just
isn't that much energy in high production spikes like cloud edge
effects that
the inverters will clip - at least not around here. <br>
<br>
One thing to consider is that if you go with smaller modules you need
more
inverters. You might compare the cost of the additional inverters to
the value
of the 0.2% energy loss from clipping over the lifetime of the system. <br>
<br>
Dana<br clear="all">
<br>
<br>
Dana Brandt<br>
Ecotech Energy Systems, LLC<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.ecotechenergy.com">www.ecotechenergy.com</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dana@ecotechenergy.com">dana@ecotechenergy.com</a><br>
360.510.0433<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 11:36 AM, Marco
Mangelsdorf <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:marco@pvthawaii.com">marco@pvthawaii.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div
style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I just don’t
understand why going over
20 percent of module nameplate to nameplate inverter rating makes any
sense.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I regularly see
120-130 percent of
nameplate amperage coming off of the array on our office due to edge of
cloud.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">So I have to
disagree with Dana in this
instance. I see this a bad design especially since lower output mods
are
so readily available these days.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">And what’s up with
the Enphase
210? Doesn’t it say on their latest compatibility list (March 2010)
that
it’s only good for the Sanyo line? What’s up with that especially
since I
know that one other manufacturer is signing off on using the Enphase
210 with
their 210-watt module, apparently with Enphase’s approval?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Marv—why is your
Enphase 210 only listed
for use with the Sanyo line when there’s a growing number of 210+ watt
mods out
there these days?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">marco</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;">I've
been concerned about pairing higher wattage modules (~230W) with the
190W
Enphase fearing a lot of clipping and power loss when the modules are
at full
power. <br>
<br>
I did some modeling of this setup in PVSYST and found that the expected
loss
from the inverter being underpowered is 0 - 0.2% annually depending on
the
assumptions. The modeling was for northwestern Washington State. A
fifth of a
percent seems pretty negligible to me and is easily offset by removing
module
mismatch from the equation. So, I'm convinced that matching modules in
the 230W
range with the 190W Enphase inverters is a good design.<br>
<br>
I recently installed 4kW of 230s with the Enphase 190s and have seen
their
output as high as 199W. <br clear="all">
<br>
Dana<br>
<br>
<br>
Dana Brandt<br>
Ecotech Energy Systems, LLC<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.ecotechenergy.com"
target="_blank">www.ecotechenergy.com</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dana@ecotechenergy.com"
target="_blank">dana@ecotechenergy.com</a><br>
360.510.0433<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="">On
Fri, May 7, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Chris Worcester <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:chris@solarwindworks.com"
target="_blank">chris@solarwindworks.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Do the Enphase
inverters clip the output
power to their rating like other manufacturer’s? So a M190 can only put
out 190
watts max? I have had this question for a bit now on system
performances using
Enphase in designs during our cold spring and fall days.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Sincerely,<br>
<br>
Chris Worcester</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy;">Solar Wind Works<br>
NABCEP Certified PV Installer<br>
Phone: 530-582-4503<br>
Fax: 530-582-4603<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.solarwindworks.com/"
target="_blank">www.solarwindworks.com</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:chris@solarwindworks.com"
target="_blank">chris@solarwindworks.com</a><br>
"Proven Energy Solutions"</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="border-style: solid none none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt medium medium; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt;"> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mark
Westbrock<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 07, 2010 10:33 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase performance</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The over-reporting of energy that Randy refers
to below was
much higher than any discrepancy based on monitoring resolution. We
have
a pyranometer at the site, and Enphase reported energy production as
high as
38% higher that predicted from irradiance data, as well as 38% higher
than the
string inverter portion of the same system. Individual microinverters
showed instantaneous power output as high as 285 W from a nominal 190 W
unit.<br>
<br>
Enphase explained that there was a software glitch that was resulting
in
"double counting". It took them over two months to correct this
issue, time which is lost from our experimental comparison of string
vs.
microinverter. They indicated that this seemed to be an isolated
situation, but I wonder how many Enphase customers are reporting
miraculous
performance from their system without verifying via another meter.<br>
<br>
Screen shot of a day's power production of 22 M190 microinverters
(nominal 4180
watts AC):<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Error! Filename not specified.</b><br>
<br>
Mark <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<pre>Mark Westbrock<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>NM ER-1J Journeyman Electrician<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Positive Energy, Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>office: 575-524-2030<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>cell: 575-640-2432<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:westbrock@positiveenergysolar.com" target="_blank">westbrock@positiveenergysolar.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com" target="_blank">www.positiveenergysolar.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">We
definitely experienced an overstatement. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">We
have a client who installed 5kW on a string inverter and
5kW on enphase and it is that side-by-side comparison that enabled us
to
positively identify a problem. There was a significant overstatement of
output.
We finally got a Enphase person who told us it was a software glitch.
The
problem appears to be fixed. They explained to us that our problem was
isolated without giving us a detailed explanation of what happened.
Since
that problem was fixed, we have seen no difference in output between a
string
inverter and enphase.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Randy<br>
<br>
</span>Kirpal Khalsa wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;">This
same issue has come up over the years for us......first with PV Powered
inverters and then noticed in Fronius as well......We have noticed in
most of
our grid tied systems that are connected thru a "revenue grade meter"
for Oregon Energy Trust production reporting, that the inverter always
has a
higher performance than indicated on the "utility grade meter".
We have seen the discrepency as high as 10%. Over time this adds
up to significant kWh differences. In our experience the inverter
always
has the higher kWh reporting, we have attributed this to the inverter
wanting
to report a good production number, to boost their efficiency
claims......maybe
even more than is accurate.....I have asked PV Powered and Fronius
about this
and their line is that to put a "revenue grade meter" into the
inverter would be cost prohibitive......interesting as the readily
available
revenue grade meters are only $30-$60. I would gladly pay that much
extra if I didn't have to wire in an additional meter. <br>
I don't think this problem is unique to the Enphase units (i haven't
installed
any of these), I think all inverters should be required to install the
revenue
grade meters to give accurate reporting of actual production.
Similar to how states have a "weights and scales" accuracy
certification, energy consumption and production meters should be
similarly
calibratable. <br>
<br>
-- <br>
Sunny Regards,<br>
Kirpal Khalsa<br>
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer<br>
Renewable Energy Systems<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.oregonsolarworks.com"
target="_blank">www.oregonsolarworks.com</a><br>
541-218-0201 m<br>
541-592-3958 o<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
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target="_blank">www.avg.com</a><br>
Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2864 - Release Date:
05/09/10
08:26:00</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre style="text-align: center;">
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<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre>List Address: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
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<pre wrap="">
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