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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hi Marv,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>In our experience, there are a couple of things you didn’t
mention that can make a big difference. The mounting approach can affect the
delta T ambient-module temperature resulting in much higher output for
groundmounts, polemounts, or rooftop arrays in windy ridges or open
spaces. Second, we regularly get irradiance above 1000W/m2 in our area. So
your statement “depends on the particular installation” is a very
important point. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Randy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Randy Sadewic</span><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Positive Energy</span><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Office: 505 424-1112</span><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Cell: 505 570-0137</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Marv
Dargatz<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 10, 2010 3:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase performance<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Marco,<br>
<br>
Sorry, I missed that question in the previous e-mail.<br>
<br>
A couple of points about the compatibility list:<br>
<br>
1. We include only modules that have passed our internal math check for
compatibility over the temperature range of the inverter.<br>
<br>
2. If the module manufacturer objects to being on the compatibility list,
we will not include them.<br>
<br>
Sunpower has objected, so they are not on the list.<br>
<br>
Zhejiang Wanxiang Solar Co. Ltd is also shown as compatible with the M210.<br>
<br>
The list is only a guideline. Any module that falls within the voltage
spec over the expected operating temperature range of the installation, and
does not exceed the inverter DC input short circuit current rating is certainly
a valid combination, and the inverter is fully warranted. Notice that
module power rating is not a factor here.<br>
<br>
I hope this helps.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>See ya!<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Marv<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>707 763-4784 x7016<o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
Marco Mangelsdorf wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>So why is the Enphase 210 just
limited “officially” to the Sanyo line?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>marco</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Dana,
Marco, Wrenches,<br>
<br>
In most locations, if the interest is in maximum lifetime energy production, it
does make sense to use modules with STC power ratings significantly higher than
the inverter max power rating.<br>
<br>
This is explained in the whitepaper located at:<br>
<br>
<a
href="http://www.enphaseenergy.com/downloads/Enphase_White_Paper_Module_Rightsizing.pdf">http://www.enphaseenergy.com/downloads/Enphase_White_Paper_Module_Rightsizing.pdf</a><br>
<br>
Remember, under most real world conditions the module will not produce STC
rated power. The inverter WILL produce maximum rated power plus some
small percent to allow for the CEC max power test methods. Also, the
module will produce less power every year (under the same conditions) and the
inverter will produce its' max rated power for its' entire lifetime.<br>
<br>
By the way, this all applies to string, central, or microinverters. Of
course, micros still retain the advantages of dealing with mismatch, partial
shading/soiling, etc.<br>
<br>
Bottom line is, the "perfect" match will depend on your particular
installation.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>See ya!<o:p></o:p></pre><pre> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Marv<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>707 763-4784 x7016<o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
Dana Brandt wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Something to remember is that my
simulation was for a specific location in Washington. The answer might be
different for your location and weather patterns.<br>
<br>
I agree that it seems wrong to have the inverter rating 20% less than the array
nameplate. Typically, I would consider that sort of pairing a poor design.
You're right that there will certainly be some clipping - especially with
cloud-edge effects. The real question in my mind is not whether the inverter
will ever clip the output of the array, but what's the real impact of that on energy
generation on an annual basis. This is what lead me to do the modeling
simulations which indicated the effect is negligible when taken in the context
of the total annual production. Compared to the whole year's sun, there just
isn't that much energy in high production spikes like cloud edge effects that
the inverters will clip - at least not around here. <br>
<br>
One thing to consider is that if you go with smaller modules you need more
inverters. You might compare the cost of the additional inverters to the value
of the 0.2% energy loss from clipping over the lifetime of the system. <br>
<br>
Dana<br clear=all>
<br>
<br>
Dana Brandt<br>
Ecotech Energy Systems, LLC<br>
<a href="http://www.ecotechenergy.com">www.ecotechenergy.com</a><br>
<a href="mailto:dana@ecotechenergy.com">dana@ecotechenergy.com</a><br>
360.510.0433<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 11:36 AM, Marco Mangelsdorf <<a
href="mailto:marco@pvthawaii.com">marco@pvthawaii.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I just
don’t understand why going over 20 percent of module nameplate to
nameplate inverter rating makes any sense.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I regularly see
120-130 percent of nameplate amperage coming off of the array on our office due
to edge of cloud.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>So I have to
disagree with Dana in this instance. I see this a bad design especially
since lower output mods are so readily available these days.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>And
what’s up with the Enphase 210? Doesn’t it say on their
latest compatibility list (March 2010) that it’s only good for the Sanyo
line? What’s up with that especially since I know that one other
manufacturer is signing off on using the Enphase 210 with their 210-watt
module, apparently with Enphase’s approval?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Marv—why
is your Enphase 210 only listed for use with the Sanyo line when there’s
a growing number of 210+ watt mods out there these days?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>marco</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>I've been concerned about
pairing higher wattage modules (~230W) with the 190W Enphase fearing a lot of
clipping and power loss when the modules are at full power. <br>
<br>
I did some modeling of this setup in PVSYST and found that the expected loss
from the inverter being underpowered is 0 - 0.2% annually depending on the
assumptions. The modeling was for northwestern Washington State. A fifth of a
percent seems pretty negligible to me and is easily offset by removing module
mismatch from the equation. So, I'm convinced that matching modules in the 230W
range with the 190W Enphase inverters is a good design.<br>
<br>
I recently installed 4kW of 230s with the Enphase 190s and have seen their
output as high as 199W. <br clear=all>
<br>
Dana<br>
<br>
<br>
Dana Brandt<br>
Ecotech Energy Systems, LLC<br>
<a href="http://www.ecotechenergy.com" target="_blank">www.ecotechenergy.com</a><br>
<a href="mailto:dana@ecotechenergy.com" target="_blank">dana@ecotechenergy.com</a><br>
360.510.0433<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Chris Worcester <<a
href="mailto:chris@solarwindworks.com" target="_blank">chris@solarwindworks.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Do the Enphase
inverters clip the output power to their rating like other
manufacturer’s? So a M190 can only put out 190 watts max? I have had this
question for a bit now on system performances using Enphase in designs during
our cold spring and fall days.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Sincerely,<br>
<br>
Chris Worcester</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Solar Wind Works<br>
NABCEP Certified PV Installer<br>
Phone: 530-582-4503<br>
Fax: 530-582-4603<br>
<a href="http://www.solarwindworks.com/" target="_blank">www.solarwindworks.com</a><br>
<a href="mailto:chris@solarwindworks.com" target="_blank">chris@solarwindworks.com</a><br>
"Proven Energy Solutions"</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'> <a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mark
Westbrock<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, May 07, 2010 10:33 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase performance</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The over-reporting of energy that Randy refers to below was
much higher than any discrepancy based on monitoring resolution. We have
a pyranometer at the site, and Enphase reported energy production as high as
38% higher that predicted from irradiance data, as well as 38% higher than the
string inverter portion of the same system. Individual microinverters
showed instantaneous power output as high as 285 W from a nominal 190 W unit.<br>
<br>
Enphase explained that there was a software glitch that was resulting in
"double counting". It took them over two months to correct this
issue, time which is lost from our experimental comparison of string vs.
microinverter. They indicated that this seemed to be an isolated
situation, but I wonder how many Enphase customers are reporting miraculous
performance from their system without verifying via another meter.<br>
<br>
Screen shot of a day's power production of 22 M190 microinverters (nominal 4180
watts AC):<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b>Error! Filename not specified.</b><br>
<br>
Mark <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div><pre>Mark Westbrock<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>NM ER-1J Journeyman Electrician<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Positive Energy, Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>office: 575-524-2030<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>cell: 575-640-2432<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="mailto:westbrock@positiveenergysolar.com" target="_blank">westbrock@positiveenergysolar.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a
href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com" target="_blank">www.positiveenergysolar.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>We definitely experienced an
overstatement. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>We have a client who installed
5kW on a string inverter and 5kW on enphase and it is that side-by-side
comparison that enabled us to positively identify a problem. There was a
significant overstatement of output. We finally got a Enphase person who told
us it was a software glitch. The problem appears to be fixed. They
explained to us that our problem was isolated without giving us a detailed
explanation of what happened. Since that problem was fixed, we have seen
no difference in output between a string inverter and enphase.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Randy<br>
<br>
</span>Kirpal Khalsa wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>This same issue has come up
over the years for us......first with PV Powered inverters and then noticed in
Fronius as well......We have noticed in most of our grid tied systems that are
connected thru a "revenue grade meter" for Oregon Energy Trust
production reporting, that the inverter always has a higher performance than
indicated on the "utility grade meter". We have seen the
discrepency as high as 10%. Over time this adds up to significant
kWh differences. In our experience the inverter always has the higher kWh
reporting, we have attributed this to the inverter wanting to report a good
production number, to boost their efficiency claims......maybe even more than
is accurate.....I have asked PV Powered and Fronius about this and their line
is that to put a "revenue grade meter" into the inverter would be
cost prohibitive......interesting as the readily available revenue grade meters
are only $30-$60. I would gladly pay that much extra if I didn't
have to wire in an additional meter. <br>
I don't think this problem is unique to the Enphase units (i haven't installed
any of these), I think all inverters should be required to install the revenue
grade meters to give accurate reporting of actual production.
Similar to how states have a "weights and scales" accuracy
certification, energy consumption and production meters should be similarly
calibratable. <br>
<br>
-- <br>
Sunny Regards,<br>
Kirpal Khalsa<br>
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer<br>
Renewable Energy Systems<br>
<a href="http://www.oregonsolarworks.com" target="_blank">www.oregonsolarworks.com</a><br>
541-218-0201 m<br>
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