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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>Marv,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>What would be a (or more) reason(s)
that the module manufacturer wouldn't want to be on your approved list
(and sell more modules)?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>Thank you,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000000 size=2>Bill Loesch<BR>Solar 1 - Saint Louis
Solar<BR></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mdargatz@enphaseenergy.com
href="mailto:mdargatz@enphaseenergy.com">Marv Dargatz</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 10, 2010 4:59 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase
performance</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=Verdana>Marco,<BR><BR>Sorry, I missed that question
in the previous e-mail.<BR><BR>A couple of points about the compatibility
list:<BR><BR>1. We include only modules that have passed our internal
math check for compatibility over the temperature range of the
inverter.<BR><BR>2. If the module manufacturer objects to being on the
compatibility list, we will not include them.<BR><BR>Sunpower has objected, so
they are not on the list.<BR><BR>Zhejiang Wanxiang Solar Co. Ltd is also shown
as compatible with the M210.<BR><BR>The list is only a guideline. Any
module that falls within the voltage spec over the expected operating
temperature range of the installation, and does not exceed the inverter DC
input short circuit current rating is certainly a valid combination, and the
inverter is fully warranted. Notice that module power rating is not a
factor here.<BR><BR>I hope this helps.<BR><BR><BR></FONT><PRE class=moz-signature cols="72">See ya!
Marv
707 763-4784 x7016
</PRE><BR><BR>Marco Mangelsdorf wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:00bf01caf083$66dc3510$34949f30$@com type="cite">
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<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">So why is the Enphase
210 just limited “officially” to the Sanyo line?</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">Thanks,<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'">marco<O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125); FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana','sans-serif'">Dana,
Marco, Wrenches,<BR><BR>In most locations, if the interest is in maximum
lifetime energy production, it does make sense to use modules with STC power
ratings significantly higher than the inverter max power rating.<BR><BR>This
is explained in the whitepaper located at:<BR><BR> <A
href="http://www.enphaseenergy.com/downloads/Enphase_White_Paper_Module_Rightsizing.pdf"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.enphaseenergy.com/downloads/Enphase_White_Paper_Module_Rightsizing.pdf</A><BR><BR>Remember,
under most real world conditions the module will not produce STC rated
power. The inverter WILL produce maximum rated power plus some small
percent to allow for the CEC max power test methods. Also, the module
will produce less power every year (under the same conditions) and the
inverter will produce its' max rated power for its' entire
lifetime.<BR><BR>By the way, this all applies to string, central, or
microinverters. Of course, micros still retain the advantages of
dealing with mismatch, partial shading/soiling, etc.<BR><BR>Bottom line is,
the "perfect" match will depend on your particular
installation.<BR><BR><BR></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P><PRE>See ya!<O:P></O:P></PRE><PRE><O:P> </O:P></PRE><PRE>Marv<O:P></O:P></PRE><PRE>707 763-4784 x7016<O:P></O:P></PRE>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR><BR>Dana Brandt wrote: <O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">Something to remember is that
my simulation was for a specific location in Washington. The answer might be
different for your location and weather patterns.<BR><BR>I agree that it
seems wrong to have the inverter rating 20% less than the array nameplate.
Typically, I would consider that sort of pairing a poor design. You're right
that there will certainly be some clipping - especially with cloud-edge
effects. The real question in my mind is not whether the inverter will ever
clip the output of the array, but what's the real impact of that on energy
generation on an annual basis. This is what lead me to do the modeling
simulations which indicated the effect is negligible when taken in the
context of the total annual production. Compared to the whole year's sun,
there just isn't that much energy in high production spikes like cloud edge
effects that the inverters will clip - at least not around here. <BR><BR>One
thing to consider is that if you go with smaller modules you need more
inverters. You might compare the cost of the additional inverters to the
value of the 0.2% energy loss from clipping over the lifetime of the system.
<BR><BR>Dana<BR clear=all><BR><BR>Dana Brandt<BR>Ecotech Energy Systems,
LLC<BR><A href="http://www.ecotechenergy.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.ecotechenergy.com</A><BR><A
href="mailto:dana@ecotechenergy.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">dana@ecotechenergy.com</A><BR>360.510.0433<BR><BR><O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 11:36 AM, Marco Mangelsdorf
<<A href="mailto:marco@pvthawaii.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">marco@pvthawaii.com</A>> wrote:<O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">I
just don’t understand why going over 20 percent of module nameplate to
nameplate inverter rating makes any sense.</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">I
regularly see 120-130 percent of nameplate amperage coming off of the array
on our office due to edge of cloud.</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">So I
have to disagree with Dana in this instance. I see this a bad design
especially since lower output mods are so readily available these
days.</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">And
what’s up with the Enphase 210? Doesn’t it say on their latest
compatibility list (March 2010) that it’s only good for the Sanyo
line? What’s up with that especially since I know that one other
manufacturer is signing off on using the Enphase 210 with their 210-watt
module, apparently with Enphase’s approval?</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">Marv—why is your Enphase 210
only listed for use with the Sanyo line when there’s a growing number of
210+ watt mods out there these days?</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">Thanks,</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">marco</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">I've been concerned about
pairing higher wattage modules (~230W) with the 190W Enphase fearing a lot
of clipping and power loss when the modules are at full power. <BR><BR>I did
some modeling of this setup in PVSYST and found that the expected loss from
the inverter being underpowered is 0 - 0.2% annually depending on the
assumptions. The modeling was for northwestern Washington State. A fifth of
a percent seems pretty negligible to me and is easily offset by removing
module mismatch from the equation. So, I'm convinced that matching modules
in the 230W range with the 190W Enphase inverters is a good design.<BR><BR>I
recently installed 4kW of 230s with the Enphase 190s and have seen their
output as high as 199W. <BR clear=all><BR>Dana<BR><BR><BR>Dana
Brandt<BR>Ecotech Energy Systems, LLC<BR><A
href="http://www.ecotechenergy.com" target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">www.ecotechenergy.com</A><BR><A
href="mailto:dana@ecotechenergy.com" target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">dana@ecotechenergy.com</A><BR>360.510.0433<O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Chris Worcester <<A
href="mailto:chris@solarwindworks.com" target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">chris@solarwindworks.com</A>>
wrote:<O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">Do
the Enphase inverters clip the output power to their rating like other
manufacturer’s? So a M190 can only put out 190 watts max? I have had this
question for a bit now on system performances using Enphase in designs
during our cold spring and fall days.</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">Sincerely,<BR><BR>Chris
Worcester</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">Solar Wind
Works<BR>NABCEP Certified PV Installer<BR>Phone: 530-582-4503<BR>Fax:
530-582-4603<BR><A href="http://www.solarwindworks.com/" target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">www.solarwindworks.com</A><BR><A
href="mailto:chris@solarwindworks.com" target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">chris@solarwindworks.com</A><BR>"Proven Energy
Solutions"</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</A>
[mailto:<A href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</A>] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>Mark Westbrock<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 07, 2010 10:33
AM<BR><B>To:</B> RE-wrenches<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase
performance</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>The over-reporting of energy that Randy refers to below
was much higher than any discrepancy based on monitoring resolution.
We have a pyranometer at the site, and Enphase reported energy production as
high as 38% higher that predicted from irradiance data, as well as 38%
higher than the string inverter portion of the same system. Individual
microinverters showed instantaneous power output as high as 285 W from a
nominal 190 W unit.<BR><BR>Enphase explained that there was a software
glitch that was resulting in "double counting". It took them over two
months to correct this issue, time which is lost from our experimental
comparison of string vs. microinverter. They indicated that this
seemed to be an isolated situation, but I wonder how many Enphase customers
are reporting miraculous performance from their system without verifying via
another meter.<BR><BR>Screen shot of a day's power production of 22 M190
microinverters (nominal 4180 watts AC):<O:P></O:P></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B>Error! Filename not specified.</B><BR><BR>Mark
<O:P></O:P></P>
<DIV>
<DIV><PRE>Mark Westbrock<O:P></O:P></PRE><PRE>NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer<O:P></O:P></PRE><PRE>NM ER-1J Journeyman Electrician<O:P></O:P></PRE><PRE>Positive Energy, Inc.<O:P></O:P></PRE><PRE>office: 575-524-2030<O:P></O:P></PRE><PRE>cell: 575-640-2432<O:P></O:P></PRE><PRE><A href="mailto:westbrock@positiveenergysolar.com" target=_blank moz-do-not-send="true">westbrock@positiveenergysolar.com</A><O:P></O:P></PRE><PRE><A href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com" target=_blank moz-do-not-send="true">www.positiveenergysolar.com</A><O:P></O:P></PRE>
<P class=MsoNormal><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">We definitely
experienced an overstatement. </SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">We have a client who
installed 5kW on a string inverter and 5kW on enphase and it is that
side-by-side comparison that enabled us to positively identify a problem.
There was a significant overstatement of output. We finally got a Enphase
person who told us it was a software glitch. The problem appears to be
fixed. They explained to us that our problem was isolated without
giving us a detailed explanation of what happened. Since that problem
was fixed, we have seen no difference in output between a string inverter
and enphase.</SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)"></SPAN><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)">Randy<BR><BR></SPAN>Kirpal Khalsa wrote:
<O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">This same issue has come up
over the years for us......first with PV Powered inverters and then noticed
in Fronius as well......We have noticed in most of our grid tied systems
that are connected thru a "revenue grade meter" for Oregon Energy Trust
production reporting, that the inverter always has a higher performance than
indicated on the "utility grade meter". We have seen the
discrepency as high as 10%. Over time this adds up to
significant kWh differences. In our experience the inverter always has
the higher kWh reporting, we have attributed this to the inverter wanting to
report a good production number, to boost their efficiency claims......maybe
even more than is accurate.....I have asked PV Powered and Fronius about
this and their line is that to put a "revenue grade meter" into the inverter
would be cost prohibitive......interesting as the readily available revenue
grade meters are only $30-$60. I would gladly pay that much
extra if I didn't have to wire in an additional meter. <BR>I don't
think this problem is unique to the Enphase units (i haven't installed any
of these), I think all inverters should be required to install the revenue
grade meters to give accurate reporting of actual production.
Similar to how states have a "weights and scales" accuracy certification,
energy consumption and production meters should be similarly
calibratable. <BR><BR>-- <BR>Sunny Regards,<BR>Kirpal Khalsa<BR>NABCEP
Certified Solar PV Installer<BR>Renewable Energy Systems<BR><A
href="http://www.oregonsolarworks.com" target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">www.oregonsolarworks.com</A><BR>541-218-0201
m<BR>541-592-3958 o<O:P></O:P></P><PRE> <O:P></O:P></PRE><PRE style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"><HR align=center width="90%" SIZE=4>
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