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Jason,<br>
We attempted this about 2-3 years ago for a project on one of Ted
Turner's ranches. This was to be a top-of-the-line eco-lodge at 10,000'
below a ridge in the northern Rockies in New Mexico, with two 7kW
Provens and a 3-phase Sunny Boy/Sunny Island system. Due to the lack of
real load analysis, and the need to have large but essentially unknown
capacity at the lodge, the initial estimate was about $900K, as I
recall. <br>
<br>
We never did the project, as they decided to go with dual generators.
We did get compensated for extensive design work.<br>
<br>
You may need to focus on large efficiencies and then put a usage
fraction, like 60%, on the electrical engineer's traditional load
calcs. That's what we did. And write in a section stating that you make
no warranties as to the sufficiency of the system to meet actual loads,
as the loads can't be accurately determined. <br>
<br>
Here's what I wrote in the initial pre-proposal:<br>
<blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in; text-indent: -0.5in;"><!--[if !supportLists]--><b
style=""><i style=""><span style="font-family: Garamond;"><span
style="">I.<span
style="font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
</span></span></span></i></b><!--[endif]--><b style=""><i style=""><span
style="font-family: Garamond;">Load
Profile Methodology and Limitations<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Garamond;">Typical
off-grid PV
systems are designed and sized based on a rigorous load analysis as an
essential first step. The load analysis is a detailed listing of every
electricity-consuming device, with power consumption and expected daily
usage
figures, used to develop an accurate profile of total expected daily
kilowatt-hour consumption. From this data a power system of specific
design and
capacity is developed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Garamond;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Garamond;">This
approach is not
possible for the XX Lodge, so an alternative approach must be used to
establish target design criteria. EPRI (Electric Power Research
Institute, the
research arm of the <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">U.S.</st1:country-region></st1:place>
electric utility industry) has developed Technology Assessment Guides
to
predict power use for various residential and commercial sectors. The
comparative sector of lodging at 12,000 square feet in the western <st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">U.S.</st1:country-region></st1:place>,
establishes a figure of 223 kilowatt-hours per day. This is a base
figure, for
conventional design without energy-conserving measures, with adders for
electric heat, hot water, cooking and air conditioning, none of which
will be
used at XX Lodge. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Garamond;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Garamond;">From this <b
style="">we have estimated that XX Lodge may
be expected to have a total average daily load not exceeding 190
kilowatt-hours
per day</b>, or 85% of the EPRI figure. This is the figure used in this
preliminary budget analysis. This may be considered to be quite
conservative;
that is, careful attention to energy-conserving approaches during
design and
construction are likely to considerably reduce this figure.<br>
</span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal">Remember too that if they now have generators,
they're not likely to conserve, as generator power is pretty much
all-or-nothing, with efficiency unimportant within the gennie capacity.
So there's a fair amount of load management and education to fit in.<br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hope this little bit helps.<br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Garamond;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span class="il"><b style="">Allan</b></span><b
style=""> Sindelar</b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><br>
<a href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com" target="_blank"><span
class="il">Allan</span>@positiveenergysolar.com</a><br>
NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer<br>
EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
<b style="">Positive Energy, Inc.</b><br>
3201 Calle Marie<br>
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507<br>
<b style="">505 424-1112</b><br>
<a href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/" target="_blank">www.positiveenergysolar.com</a></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
jason pozner wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:p2i649f76e91005061938k650c8ffck332f461b78d172b0@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">Hey all,<br>
<br>
I am trying to size a PV/generator system for a 10,000 ft2 off-grid
hunting/snowmobile lodge with outbuildings. The goal is to
significantly reduce current generator run time. I was wondering if
any of you have experience or suggestions for calculating time of use
of lights, etc in a lodging situation. My interviews with the rancher
have proven fruitless to pin down any time of use of most loads, though
I do have an estimated run time for the genny in summer and winter. I
did get a pretty good snapshot of his connected load by turning on all
I could on and clamping the feeds. <br>
<br>
The lodge is 18 rooms, 4 for the help, and a few outbuildings. Has
anyone sized any off-grid lodges? Any other ways to approach the
moving target of such a fluctuating load at a guest lodge? <br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
Jay Pozner<br>
Nunatak Alternative Energy Solutions<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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