Whether you rebuild the system using existing equipment or start over again with all new gear, I strongly suggest building a simple relay logic control to prevent both pumps from running at the same time. Toilet flushes, grinder activates just as well pump kicks on....that's a pretty hefty load for any system, and will force you into far more inverter than this client otherwise needs. Just decide which pump is most critical to run, and use relays to prevent the other pump from kicking on until the first job is finished. Might need to install more buffer for the second system -- larger or multiple pressure tanks, or ___ (I don't want to picture what the second system could use, sorry. Too close to breakfast).<br>
<br>I know this may sound obvious after the fact, but you'd be surprised how many folks miss this.<br><br clear="all">Phil Undercuffler<br><br><br><br><br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 8:21 AM, Dana <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com">dana@solarwork.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">I
see several challenges here:</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Symbol;"><span>·<span style="font: 7pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size: 14pt;">You
sure do not want both pumps on at the same time or total shut down will result.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Symbol;"><span>·<span style="font: 7pt "Times New Roman";">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size: 14pt;">The
2HP pump is 24 amps at 120VAC or 12 amps at 230 VAC, either way 2.7KW continuous
draw and start up surge at 2-4 times [5.4KW – 10.8KW]that?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">This
will be more than a light dimmer.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">I
think the mix and match was just covered here with compromises in the assorted modules.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">I
s there a backup generator? Could this grinder and water pump go direct to that
on a pressure or float switch start?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">If
you are a code compliant installer then you probably are faced with a start
over.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt;">I
have a client that we are doing just that right now and they are glad to do
this. The 2 – 30 watt PV modules just will not get them and 2 laptops
through the winter any more…</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt;"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Thanks,
Dana Orzel</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Great
Solar Works, Inc</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">E
- <a href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com" target="_blank">dana@solarwork.com</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">V
- 970.626.5253</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">F
- 970.626.4140</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">C
- 970.209.4076</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">web
- <a href="http://www.solarwork.com" target="_blank">www.solarwork.com</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Responsible
Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14pt;"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Bob
Clark<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, May 02, 2010 2:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Heinz 57 off-grid array - What should I do with
the solar modules?</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.3pt;">Wrenches:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.3pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.3pt;">We were called to assess the status of an off-grid system
that is not the worst I have seen, but it comes close.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.3pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.3pt;">I have some preliminary thoughts about system redesign,
but would like to hear from the Wrenches about the array.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.3pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><b><span style="letter-spacing: -0.3pt;">Givens:</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.3pt;">We will not install anything unless it is to code.
It is obvious that none of the existing system was installed to code.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.3pt;">We will use the existing 24V battery bank consisting of
8, Trojan L16s. The batteries are still “relatively fresh.”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.3pt;">Pump is a Franklin pump ˝ hp 115VAC. The CFs dim
when the pump starts.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.3pt;">New load will be a GRINDER PUMP FOR SEPTIC = 2HP, 15amp
(240 or 120VAC – more than likely it will be 240V pump) – Another
light dimmer!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.3pt;">Modest daily electrical load (estimate no more than 600
WHr/day; 25AHr) – they are <i><u>very good</u></i> at managing their
electrical use.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.3pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><b><span style="letter-spacing: -0.3pt;">Solar array – to keep or replace?</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.3pt;">8 solar modules – a Heinz 57 mix of older modules -
2 Photowatt PMX500 (Are these modules UL listed? There did not appear to
be a rating label on the back.) wired in series, 2 Kyocera KC120-1 wired in
series, 2 Golden Genesis PV-75 wired in series, 2 Photowatt PW 1000 12V-24V
internally wired for 24V wired in parallel with the other modules strings
– all of these modules are wired in 5 parallel strings for approximately
34.2Vmp and 20.4Imp, ~695W (STC). Oh, and they need a new mounting
structures for the modules.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.3pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.3pt;">Should I try to work with these modules or advise the
customer to start over (any modules that are not UL listed will have to go)?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.3pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.3pt;">What is a good “rule of thumb” for a ratio of
PV watts to battery bank capacity per day of autonomy?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.3pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.3pt;">Thanks for your ideas.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.3pt;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><b><span style="font-family: "Papyrus","serif"; color: rgb(227, 108, 10);">Bob Clark</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><b><i><span style="font-family: "Papyrus","serif"; color: rgb(227, 108, 10);">SolarWind Energy Systems, LLC</span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="letter-spacing: -0.3pt;"> </span></p>
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