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<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Sans">I hate to up you guys on this but you know the
emails we get from our friends over there in PV, China?? They had
159,354 solar powered calculators that the "+" button didn't work. OOOHH,
what a deal we got on those little amorphous cells for the system we're
installing at the local Building Dept!!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Sans"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Sans">Bill</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Sans">Feather River Solar Electric</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Sans"></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=keypowerservices@comcast.net
href="mailto:keypowerservices@comcast.net">John McNicholas - Key Power
Services</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">Re-wrenches</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 27, 2010 8:21
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [RE-wrenches] Fwd: low voltage
modules in high voltage applications</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>We have been working on a similar project - we picked up 10,000
solar pathway lights on the cheap and have removed the little modules.....
been a bit tedious, but should be well worth the savings....
<DIV><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span
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<DIV
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<DIV
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class=Apple-style-span
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<DIV
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; webkit-nbsp-mode: space; webkit-line-break: after-white-space">John
McNicholas<BR>NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ™<BR>Key Power
Services, Inc.<BR></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR class=webkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Begin forwarded message:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'"><B>From: </B></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'"><A
href="mailto:Richard.L.Ratico@VALLEY.NET">Richard.L.Ratico@VALLEY.NET</A>
(Richard L Ratico)<BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'"><B>Date: </B></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'">April 27, 2010 9:30:05 AM
EDT<BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'"><B>To: </B></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'"><A
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</A><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'"><B>Subject:
</B></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'"><B>Re:
[RE-wrenches] low voltage modules in high voltage
applications</B><BR></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN: 0px"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'"><B>Reply-To:
</B></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: medium; FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica'">RE-wrenches <<A
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</A>><BR></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV>I second Mike's suggestion for sunglasses on startup. Wait,
........better go<BR>for welding helmets. Those DC arcs are bright. And I bet
they didn't use listed<BR>electrical tape either! :-) Thanks for sharing
this one.<BR><BR>Dick Ratico<BR>Solarwind Electric <BR><BR>--- You
wrote:<BR>Typically those types of modules are rated for 30V. Most 12v
amorphous modules<BR>under 40 watts are rated for that. I would
recommend sunglasses for startup.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Mike<BR><BR><A
href="mailto:mike@powerupco.com">mike@powerupco.com</A><BR><BR><BR><BR>From:
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org<BR>[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org]
On Behalf Of Jeff Yago<BR>Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 9:04 AM<BR>To:
RE-wrenches<BR>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] low voltage modules in high voltage
applications<BR><BR><BR><BR>First let me say that we almost never work on
failed systems, especially when<BR>its for somebody that picked our brains on
pretense of buying a system, then<BR>they went out and bought everything on
the internet, and when nothing worked<BR>they call us!<BR><BR>Also, let me say
that the following project has nothing to do with us other than<BR>a call from
an electrician who is installing a grid-tie system for somebody I<BR>don't
know who had a few general install questions and was hoping I would<BR>provide
some guidance. My advice was to run as fast as he can! Here
is the<BR>story-<BR><BR>This commercial building owner went to Harbor Freight
and purchased a trailer<BR>truck load of 12 watt battery charging modules.
You know the ones you see<BR>advertised to trickle charge a car or boat
battery. I have not actually seen<BR>the modules this guy purchased, but
based on others I have seen they typically<BR>have a potted junction on the
back with 3 feet of very limited insulation wire<BR>pair out with bare wire
ends. A few more questions and answers indicated these<BR>were made in
China, had no label listing their ratings except indicating 12 watt<BR>at 14
volts. The very large physical dimensions he gave for such a
small<BR>wattage tells me they are those thin frame amorphous you see being
sold to keep<BR>your truck or tractor battery charged.<BR><BR>To make a long
story short, this electrician said they had already mounted<BR>"hundreds" of
these modules on the roof of a warehouse, and were wiring them in<BR>series
for connection to a Fronius grid-tie inverter. Also, he said the
wires<BR>from each module was routed through a separate hole in the roof and
then tied<BR>together. I assume this was by the ol ball of electrical
tape wiring method.<BR><BR>Not counting the obvious code related problems with
what they are doing, and the<BR>almost sure need to have a fire truck nearby
when they start this thing up, does<BR>anybody know what a typical high
voltage rating would be for this type of module<BR>and the small wire pair?
My guess is the small wire and/or the modules
will<BR>quickly break down and start arcing, then the entire array will melt
down which<BR>is what I told this electrician could happen. However,
since there is no label<BR>on the module, I am only going on gut feeling as to
the voltage rating of these<BR>cheap modules which I am sure were clearly
never designed for series wiring to<BR>achieve high voltage.<BR><BR>Anybody
know these ratings? Should I sell tickets for the fireworks
show?<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR><BR>Jeff Yago<BR><BR><BR><BR>--- end of quote
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