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<DIV>
<DIV>Pat,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>At what point (kW or cost) does a weather station with online monitoring
make sense? </DIV>
<DIV>I like to put a weather station on all commercial PV systems and
upscale residential systems unless the client does not want it or will not
pay for it. I like to measure irradiance, wind speed and direction, ambient
and cell temperature (and rainfall if the customer will pay for it). Then
I have the system call me automatically when performance is
not as expected. I also like to put CTs on the grid to make sure utility
input is correct.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>What (or who ) defines "normal weather?"</DIV>
<DIV>You don't have to be concerned with weather if your DAS measures actual
performance against calculated expected performance. We have early
morning fog in southern California, so I set the automatic trouble call for
between 10am and 4pm.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Defining expectations for the large (> 1M) installations must
be particularly vexing - what constitutes normal or expected downtime due
to mechanical failure becomes key to structuring PPA's.</DIV>
<DIV>I write into the service contract that we will respond to customer or
automatic trouble calls 48 or 72 hours during weekdays (not weekends) and during
regular business hours (8to5). I have had only one client who wanted me to wear
a pager. I told him that (1) PV systems are reliable, (2) if his system was
not powering emergency or life support loads, and (3) he would have to
pay my hourly rate 24/7 if he wanted me on call 24/7. He
quickly changed his mind about how important his PV system was.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Joel Davidson</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=SOLARPRO@aol.com href="mailto:SOLARPRO@aol.com">SOLARPRO@aol.com</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, April 26, 2010 7:57
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches]
Volcanos,reduced solar production and kWh performance warr...</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT id=role_document color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>
<DIV>Marco:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>At what point (kW or cost) does a weather station with online monitoring
make sense? </DIV>
<DIV>What (or who ) defines "normal weather?"</DIV>
<DIV>Defining expectations for the large (> 1M) installations must
be particularly vexing - what constitutes normal or expected downtime due
to mechanical failure becomes key to structuring PPA's.</DIV>
<DIV>If making a warranty on kWh production must be part of a contract, a
number of concerns must be tackled in the way it is written, especially with
regard to the value of compensation. Maybe funds could be awarded
for <EM>over</EM> production or applied as a credit against lower than
expected kWh. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Pat Redgate</DIV>
<DIV>Ameco</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 4/26/2010 4:38:43 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
solar1online@charter.net writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 10px; MARGIN-LEFT: 10px"><FONT
style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000 size=2 face=Arial>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Hi Marco,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I hope this query does not divert response to
your original question.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>How is the situation of the reduced performance
due to the volcano (or other "acts of God" or the like) approached
in the Power Purchase contract? Perhaps this could be titled "Reduced Solar
Production As a Result of Reduced Solar Input". </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>TIA,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Bill Loesch<BR>Solar 1 - Saint Louis
Solar<BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>PS As I remember, the last time I bought a new
vehicle, back in the Dark Ages, the auto manufacturer's warranty deferred to
the tire maker's warranty (for tires), etc. Any similarity?</DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=mailto:marco@pvthawaii.com
href="mailto:marco@pvthawaii.com">Marco Mangelsdorf</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">'RE-wrenches'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, April 25, 2010 10:02
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [RE-wrenches]
Volcanos,reduced solar production and kWh performance warranties</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">This thread brings up a
very timely issue that I’m dealing with right now with PV Power Purchase
Providers. As an integrator providing turnkey PV systems of X kW,
I’m being asked to contractually agree to a minimum performance warranty
for said PV systems. I am EXTREMELY uncomfortable to any such clause
in any contract that I would sign. I have strong confidence in my PV
design capabilities and engineering support and in my professional
crew to install a top-quality PV system. I have a lot less
confidence in an inverter manufacturer being able to get to a site on a
Hawaiian island in the middle of the Pacific in a super timely fashion as
the lost PV kWhs rack up. And as I mentioned in a previous post
today, we have an active volcano here that’s been spewing since 1983, a
volcano that could get a lot worse on any given day. I’m leaning
strongly against agreeing to any such clause. Way too bad a
precedent to set. Way too much of a liability.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Anyone else had to deal
with this bugger of a performance warranty demand?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d">marco<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">ProVision
Solar<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Marco:</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Our
production <EM><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">schedule</SPAN></EM> has been in
tatters - lowered by perhaps 30% because of the rain.... can't plan, can't
do. Then I pay overtime on good days to (try to) catch
up.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">We
have a number of systems online and I had not thought to actually review
and compare from this year to last. I'll let ya know.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">We'll
get a call like - "My bill is higher than last year (edison has a bar
graph of monthly consumption for the past 13 months) and I'd like you to
look at my system" or My meter is not going backwards, should I call
edison?" The weather is so consistently wet this
winter (think Hilo) that we usually just need to ask-</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">"Been
outside lately?"</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">But
everywhere is so green and the desert bloom is
outrageous.........</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A
title=http://www.desertusa.com/wildflo/ca.html
href="http://www.desertusa.com/wildflo/ca.html">http://www.desertusa.com/wildflo/ca.html</A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Pat
Redgate </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Ameco
Solar </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">In
a message dated 4/25/2010 12:24:53 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
marco@pvthawaii.com writes:</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Pat,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Kicked
your butts as far as lower output? If so, by how much on a
percentage basis?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">On
the Big Island of Hawaii, we’ve had a very active volcano doing its
thing since 1983. With the normal trade winds, the vog (volcanic
smoke + fog) gets blown south past the volcano, around the south tip of
the island and <B><I>then back up</I></B> along the west side of the
island. Which means that Kona-side residents can be in a yucky vog
zone for days and sometimes longer. Think L.A. on a smoggy summer
day. And as far as percentage decrease in solar output, I really
have little accurate clue.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Marco<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">ProVision
Solar<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Kicked
out butts, in fact.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Pat
Redgate</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"
class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Ameco
Solar</SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: black"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></FONT>
<P>
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