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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Calibri>We have been doing them since 1979, and we have
far less trouble with GOOD sealed batteries designed for such service - like the
Concorde SunXenteders. We have more problems with people not maintaining their
flooded batteries than we do with them ruining the sealed in other
ways.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Calibri>The original post describes a totally FUBAR
system setup, and the batteries would have been ruined no matter what type they
were.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>..................................................................................................<BR>Northern
Arizona Wind & Sun - Electricity From The Sun Since 1979<BR>Solar Discussion
Forum: <A
href="http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/">http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/</A><BR>..................................................................................................</DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=toddcory@finestplanet.com
href="mailto:toddcory@finestplanet.com">toddcory@finestplanet.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, November 30, 2009 8:50
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] concord
batteries</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Calibri></FONT><FONT size=2
face=Calibri></FONT><BR></DIV><FONT size=4 face=arial>As someone who has been
doing off grid systems since 1985 I can say from experience, ALL sealed
batteries are CRAP... especially in off grid applications. They are too
fragile and do not last.<BR><BR>Todd<BR><BR><BR><BR>On Sunday, November 29,
2009 5:48pm, "Conrad Geyser" <<A
href="mailto:conradg@cape.com">conradg@cape.com</A>> said:<BR><BR>
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<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">In the vein of us on
grid folks who’s heads spin when the off grid folks start talking about charge
programming and gen set start up parameters…<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I am servicing an
orphaned 48 V off grid system that is only 1 1/2 years old, with 40 Concorde
Sun Extender batteries, which are for the most part, shot (about half of them
under 10V after a generator EQ charge). I’m sure the batteries have been
abused at least after the point that someone lowered the generator start
voltage to 40V. We’re still doing fact finding on the charge parameters
for the PV and wind, but I’m wondering if there is anyone that has an opinion
on the Concorde batteries.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">And at least at this
point, I’m glad I had to study for some off grid questions on the NABCEP test,
not to mention the conversations on this list. :
><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Conrad<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><ST1:PERSONNAME w:st="on"><FONT color=navy size=2
face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Cotuit
Solar</SPAN></FONT></ST1:PERSONNAME><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy size=2 face=Arial><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: navy; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
size=2 face=Tahoma><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Bob-O Schultze<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, November 25, 2009 9:59
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <ST1:PERSONNAME
w:st="on">RE-wrenches</ST1:PERSONNAME><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [<ST1:PERSONNAME
w:st="on">RE-wrenches</ST1:PERSONNAME>] Nabcep - grid tie---Off
grid</SPAN></FONT><O:P></O:P></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">William,<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Nice to meet you -however briefly- at the Solar Zoo in
<ST1:CITY w:st="on"><ST1:PLACE
w:st="on">Anaheim</ST1:PLACE></ST1:CITY>.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">If you don't see the value in being NABCEP certified,
then you shouldn't bother with it. If your state- as more than a few have-
decides to recognize it in some way that affects your pocket, then you'll
likely change your mind PDQ. I've personally gotten one or two jobs that I
know about because I was Certified and the other bidder was not, but our bids
were very close in price. Low-ballers, like head lice, are just a nasty fact
of life.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">While I generally agree with you on your point #2, it
varies a lot state to state. I'm licensed in CA and OR. While I understand the
rules in CA are changing, enforcement is, and has always been, a joke. In OR,
you need a 4000 hour apprenticeship AND 256 hours of general electrical
classroom time to get a Renewable Energy license. A general journeyman license
is twice that. I've had inspectors come to our job site and check that
everyone is licensed. In OR, you don't lay hands on a wire without a license.
Ever hear of the like in CA? Maybe in the big cities, but nowhere
else.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">We're totally on the same page about the IBEW. If you
understand that their goal is total domination of the electrical trade
everywhere, a lot of how they operate makes sense. I'm a pro-Union kinda guy
as a rule, but, like religion, too much of a thing is way worse than
none.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">As to experience with EMT and the like, again it
varies state to state and certainly region to region. In this neck of the
woods, if you can't bend an offset or saddle bend, you are either a new
apprentice or unemployed.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Best, Bob-O<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On Nov 24, 2009, at 11:48 PM, William Miller
wrote:<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT size=3 face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Friends:<BR><BR>I'd like to make two brief points on
the training/NABCEP debate:<BR><BR>1. If I thought NABCEP certification would
get me one more job I'd normally lose to a low-ball bidder, I'd be inclined to
sit for the test, but it won't.<BR><BR>2. Most solar electric installers could
not be considered electricians. Until they learn the trade, they are not
qualified to install the most basic grid tie system. Conversely, many
electricians with the most basic electrical skills think they know all that
needs to be known to design and install solar-electric. Wrong
again.<BR><BR>I don't support the IBEW concept of taking over the solar
industry by force, but I do respect their concept of actually encouraging well
rounded electrician's skills. How many solar installers can actually lay
an offset into a stick of EMT? Not many. Most are glorified stereo
installers, plugging and praying.<BR><BR>Respectfully,<BR><BR>William
Miller<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
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style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></O:SMARTTAGTYPE></O:SMARTTAGTYPE></O:SMARTTAGTYPE></FONT>
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