<font face="arial" size="4">As someone who has been doing off grid systems since 1985 I can say from experience, ALL sealed batteries are CRAP... especially in off grid applications. They are too fragile and do not last.<br><br>Todd<br><br><br><br>On Sunday, November 29, 2009 5:48pm, "Conrad Geyser" <conradg@cape.com> said:<br><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">In the vein of us on grid folks who’s
heads spin when the off grid folks start talking about charge programming and
gen set start up parameters…<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">I am servicing an orphaned 48 V off grid
system that is only 1 1/2 years old, with 40 Concorde Sun Extender batteries,
which are for the most part, shot (about half of them under 10V after a generator
EQ charge). I’m sure the batteries have been abused at least after
the point that someone lowered the generator start voltage to 40V. We’re
still doing fact finding on the charge parameters for the PV and wind, but I’m
wondering if there is anyone that has an opinion on the Concorde batteries.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">And at least at this point, I’m glad
I had to study for some off grid questions on the NABCEP test, not to mention
the conversations on this list. : ><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Conrad<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><st1:personname w:st="on"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Cotuit
Solar</span></font></st1:personname><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;"> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Bob-O Schultze<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, November 25, 2009
9:59 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <st1:personname w:st="on">RE-wrenches</st1:personname><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [<st1:personname w:st="on">RE-wrenches</st1:personname>] Nabcep - grid tie---Off grid</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">William,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Nice to meet you -however briefly- at the Solar Zoo in <st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Anaheim</st1:place></st1:city>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">If you don't see the value in being NABCEP certified, then you
shouldn't bother with it. If your state- as more than a few have- decides to
recognize it in some way that affects your pocket, then you'll likely change
your mind PDQ. I've personally gotten one or two jobs that I know about because
I was Certified and the other bidder was not, but our bids were very close in
price. Low-ballers, like head lice, are just a nasty fact of life.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">While I generally agree with you on your point #2, it varies a lot
state to state. I'm licensed in CA and OR. While I understand the rules in CA
are changing, enforcement is, and has always been, a joke. In OR, you need a
4000 hour apprenticeship AND 256 hours of general electrical classroom time to
get a Renewable Energy license. A general journeyman license is twice that.
I've had inspectors come to our job site and check that everyone is licensed.
In OR, you don't lay hands on a wire without a license. Ever hear of the like
in CA? Maybe in the big cities, but nowhere else.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">We're totally on the same page about the IBEW. If you understand that
their goal is total domination of the electrical trade everywhere, a lot of how
they operate makes sense. I'm a pro-Union kinda guy as a rule, but, like
religion, too much of a thing is way worse than none.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">As to experience with EMT and the like, again it varies state to state
and certainly region to region. In this neck of the woods, if you can't bend an
offset or saddle bend, you are either a new apprentice or unemployed.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Best, Bob-O<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">On Nov 24, 2009, at 11:48 PM, William Miller wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Friends:<br>
<br>
I'd like to make two brief points on the training/NABCEP debate:<br>
<br>
1. If I thought NABCEP certification would get me one more job I'd normally
lose to a low-ball bidder, I'd be inclined to sit for the test, but it won't.<br>
<br>
2. Most solar electric installers could not be considered electricians.
Until they learn the trade, they are not qualified to install the most basic
grid tie system. Conversely, many electricians with the most basic electrical
skills think they know all that needs to be known to design and install
solar-electric. Wrong again.<br>
<br>
I don't support the IBEW concept of taking over the solar industry by force,
but I do respect their concept of actually encouraging well rounded electrician's
skills. How many solar installers can actually lay an offset into a stick
of EMT? Not many. Most are glorified stereo installers, plugging
and praying.<br>
<br>
Respectfully,<br>
<br>
William Miller<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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