Dave......my guess is Unirac missed that part of the update in their Sep 09 installation manual.....the ground clip/lug instructions are the same as those prior to their Feb 09 update.......????? You are absolutely right......they need to be consistent......We have been very happy with Unirac's easy to locate and wide variety of technical documentation....<br>
Cheers,<br><br>
-- <br>
Sunny Regards,<br>
Kirpal Khalsa<br>
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer<br>
Renewable Energy Systems<br>
<a href="http://www.oregonsolarworks.com/" target="_blank">www.oregonsolarworks.com</a><br>
541-218-0201 m<br>
541-592-3958 o <br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 4:35 AM, Dave Click <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:daveclick@fsec.ucf.edu">daveclick@fsec.ucf.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Kirpal, it looks like Unirac needs to make their requirement consistent- I was using<br>
<a href="http://www.unirac.com/pdf/ii227.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.unirac.com/pdf/ii227.pdf</a> (dated Sep '09)<br>
as my source which differs from your source (dated Feb '09)<br> </blockquote><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
I like your 225_5 layout better, though. The more grounding the merrier.<div class="im"><br>
<br>
-------- Original Message --------<br>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Bonding Rails<br></div><div class="im">
From: Kirpal Khalsa <<a href="mailto:solarworks@gmail.com" target="_blank">solarworks@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br></div><div class="im">
Date: 2009/11/17 19:29<br>
<br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div class="im">
Hey Guys....Unirac recently changed their requirement to 2 clips between each module.......one on the upper rail and one on the lower rail......therefore by my count you need 2N-2 clips for N modules, you don't need any clips at the ends of the row of modules........ the link to their diagram and instructions is: <a href="http://www.unirac.com/pdf/ii225_5.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.unirac.com/pdf/ii225_5.pdf</a><br>
<br>
<br>
I think the overall intention is that it is better to not skimp on grounding.....for all the inner modules in a row they are bonded to the rails at 4 points, each of the rails has a ground lug. Should any module be removed for any reason the remainder of the modules are still solidly grounded......<br>
<br>
My understanding is that Uniracs ground lugs and clips are licensed from Wiley so I would guess that the Wiley direct ground lugs and clips have the same requirements......<br>
<br>
My take is that this grounding system is soooooo much more convenient and fast than some of the ground lug to module systems we used to use.......(and still use in top of pole mounts)...<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br></div><div class="im">
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 1:47 PM, Peter Parrish <<a href="mailto:peter.parrish@calsolareng.com" target="_blank">peter.parrish@calsolareng.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:peter.parrish@calsolareng.com" target="_blank">peter.parrish@calsolareng.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
<br>
That still works to approximately one clip per rail (actually N-1<br>
clips for<br>
N modules). - Peter<br>
<br>
<br>
Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President<br>
California Solar Engineering, Inc.<br>
820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065<br>
CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26<br></div><div class="im">
<a href="mailto:peter.parrish@calsolareng.com" target="_blank">peter.parrish@calsolareng.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:peter.parrish@calsolareng.com" target="_blank">peter.parrish@calsolareng.com</a>><br>
Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885<br>
<br>
<br>
<br></div><div class="im">
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>] On Behalf Of<br>
Dave Click<br>
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 1:09 PM<br>
To: RE-wrenches<br>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Bonding Rails<br>
<br>
Yes, that's correct. In my answer I was just rephrasing it to say you'd<br>
need twice as many WEEBs as you think. As I understand it, the intent of<br>
this layout is to give the installer two chances to bond each module<br>
properly to the rail.<br>
<br>
Unirac has a similar requirement for its UGC-1s on SolarMount, but in<br>
their schematic they don't require you to bond to both rails. So if you<br>
have four modules, you need UGC-1s between A&B, B&C, C&D but you can<br>
have them all on a single rail. I think it's better to alternate between<br>
rails anyway: A&B (top rail), B&C (bottom rail), etc.<br>
<br>
DKC<br>
<br>
-------- Original Message --------<br>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Bonding Rails<br>
From: Peter Parrish <<a href="mailto:peter.parrish@calsolareng.com" target="_blank">peter.parrish@calsolareng.com</a><br></div><div class="im">
<mailto:<a href="mailto:peter.parrish@calsolareng.com" target="_blank">peter.parrish@calsolareng.com</a>>><br></div><div class="im">
To: 'RE-wrenches' <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br></div><div class="im">
<mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>><br>
Date: 2009/11/17 15:55<br>
<br>
> On page 8 it would appear that we need TWO WEEB clips bonding<br>
modules A<br>
and<br>
> B to rails #1 and #2 and another TWO WEEB clips bonding modules C<br>
and D to<br>
> rails #1 and #2, etc. - Peter<br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br></div><div class="im">
> [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br></div><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>] On Behalf Of<br>
Dave Click<br>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 12:14 PM<br>
> To: RE-wrenches<br>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Bonding Rails<br>
><br>
> Peter,<br>
><br>
> (1) it appears that per the WEEB installation manual:<br>
> <a href="http://www.we-llc.com/Datasheets/104-0404-000008-008.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.we-llc.com/Datasheets/104-0404-000008-008.pdf</a><br>
> (page 8) you need to have one WEEB per module rather than one for<br>
every<br>
> other module as you suggest.<br>
><br>
> (2) 690.43 Equipment Grounding.<br>
> Exposed non-current-carrying metal parts of module frames, equipment,<br>
> and conductor enclosures shall be grounded in accordance with<br>
250.134 or<br>
> 250.136(A) regardless of voltage.<br>
><br>
> I guess the latter answer depends on whether your AHJ considers the<br>
> rails "exposed"-- I would, so in this situation I'd have lugs on each<br>
> module and each rail.<br>
><br>
> DKC<br>
><br>
> -------- Original Message --------<br>
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Bonding Rails<br>
> From: Peter Parrish <<a href="mailto:peter.parrish@calsolareng.com" target="_blank">peter.parrish@calsolareng.com</a><br></div></div><div class="im">
<mailto:<a href="mailto:peter.parrish@calsolareng.com" target="_blank">peter.parrish@calsolareng.com</a>>><br></div><div class="im">
> To: 'RE-wrenches' <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br></div><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>><br>
> Date: 2009/11/17 14:56<br>
><br>
>> We have been using WEEB clips on all of our installations for over a<br>
>> year now. We include the WEEB data/installation sheets in our permit<br>
>> package and patiently point out the clips to inspectors who<br>
haven't seen<br>
>> the WEEB system yet.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Two questions:<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> (1) For ProSolar rails, can we use one WEEB clip to bond two<br>
>> adjacent modules (say, modules A and B) on the upper rail (say,<br>
rail #1)<br>
>> and then use a second WEEB clip to bond the next two adjacent<br>
modules<br>
>> (say, modules C and D) on the lower rail (say, rail #2) and then<br>
use a<br>
>> listed lay-in lug (with in our case a WEEB clip) to bond to<br>
either rail<br>
>> #1 or #2 to continue the grounding?<br>
>><br>
>> (2) If we DON"T use WEEB clips and use the conventional bonding<br>
>> methodology per module manufacturer's instructions (proper<br>
location on<br>
>> the module, and listed screws, washers and nuts), do we have to ALSO<br>
>> bond the rails? We have an inspector in Pasadena, CA that is<br>
requiring<br>
>> this, but this is the first time we have been required to do so.<br>
Perhaps<br>
>> in the past year in ignorant bliss we have missed an important<br>
>> development? Or have we been dodging bullets for seven years and not<br>
>> even knowing it?<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> - Peter<br>
>><br>
>> Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President<br>
>> California Solar Engineering, Inc.<br>
>> 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065<br>
>> CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26<br>
>> <a href="mailto:peter.parrish@calsolareng.com" target="_blank">peter.parrish@calsolareng.com</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:peter.parrish@calsolareng.com" target="_blank">peter.parrish@calsolareng.com</a>><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:peter.parrish@calsolareng.com" target="_blank">peter.parrish@calsolareng.com</a><br>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:peter.parrish@calsolareng.com" target="_blank">peter.parrish@calsolareng.com</a>>><br>
>> Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885<br>
>><br>
><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
>><br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Sunny Regards,<br>Kirpal Khalsa<br>NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer<br>Renewable Energy Systems<br><a href="http://www.oregonsolarworks.com">www.oregonsolarworks.com</a><br>
541-218-0201 m<br>541-592-3958 o<br>