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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Peter, perhaps I’m missing something
here but why not use the Morning Star Relay Driver. It has 4 channels and can
use <st1:place w:st="on">Battery</st1:place> voltage as an input trigger. Again
perhaps I’m missing something. Good luck.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>PS still waiting on more than one aux
output from Outback also.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Christopher<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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xscale="f" string="Solar & Wind FX" />
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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width=370 height=61 src="cid:image002.gif@01CA3AC6.30CA9980"
alt="Solar & Wind FX" v:shapes="_x0000_s1027"></span><![endif]><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> Chris Schaefer’s<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<h1 align=left style='text-align:left'><b><i><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy;font-style:italic'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></i></b></h1>
<h1 align=left style='text-align:left'><b><i><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy;font-style:italic'>WHERE
KNOWLEDGE EQUALS POWER <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">INDEPENDENCE</st1:place></st1:City><o:p></o:p></span></font></i></b></h1>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><font size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:6.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-style:italic'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-style:italic'>Specializing
in Off-Grid Electricity for Remote Homes<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-style:italic'>Grid-Tied
Power for Residential and Commercial Sites<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><font size=1 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:6.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-style:italic'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-style:italic'>Tel
585-229-2083 ~ Cell 585-748-1870<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address
style="BACKGROUND-POSITION: left bottom; BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(res://ietag.dll/#34/#1001); BACKGROUND-REPEAT: repeat-x"
tabIndex="0" w:st="on"><i><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-style:italic'>5115
South Hill Road</span></font></i></st1:address></st1:Street><i><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy;font-style:italic'><o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-style:italic'>Canandaigua
<st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">New York</st1:place></st1:State>
14424<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;font-style:italic'><a
href="http://www.solarandwindfx.com/">www.solarandwindfx.com</a> ~ <a
href="mailto:chris@solarandwindfx.com">chris@solarandwindfx.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Drake Chamberlin<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 20 September, 2009 20:09<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">RE-wrenches</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [<st1:PersonName
w:st="on">RE-wrenches</st1:PersonName>] XW6048 parts problem</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Hi Peter, <br>
<br>
Do you need the extra fan? The VFX has an internal fan. Are there a
lot of heavy loads that push the limits of the Outback? If not, take out
the fan or swap it for a cover with no fan. Many VFX inverters didn't
come with cover fans. I don't know if they are standard now, or not.<br>
<br>
Or, have the fan go on whenever the direct grid tie inverter is being called on
to charge batteries instead of feed the grid. If loads are not real
heavy, battery charging, by back feeding the AC Out, may be the time when the
fan is needed the most. <br>
<br>
Before inverters started controlling generators, we used a device called the
Simple Switch, which was a voltage controlled contact. (We'd use it with
a GenWiz). I'm not sure what is out there these days. You could use the
Atkinson GSCM, generator start module, which senses the voltage. If you need
this solution, I'd call AEE. <br>
<br>
Thanks for the heads up on the Xantrex. I just heard another horror story
about the Xantrex 6024 system. According to the installer, the owner shut
off an AC switch and the array cooked a bank of Surrette 25CS 25 PS
batteries. I don't know the new Xantrex line and don't understand how
this could happen. Is this really possible? <br>
<br>
-Drake <br>
<br>
At 06:43 PM 9/20/2009, you wrote:<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>Hi Drake (and everyone else interested in
this thread),<br>
<br>
Armed with the information from my esteemed colleagues, we went ahead and
purchased a SunWise “Solar Ready-Grid Tie Battery System”, a SRB3.6
to be exact. The heart of the system is a GVFX3648. I ordered it without the
Charge controller and purchased a SB3000 and 3150 Wdc of PV to go with it. <br>
<br>
I also purchased a Grainger 2P2T relay with a 12 V coil in a NC configuration
(to disconnect the SB when the batteries are fully charged in off-grid mode)
and an Outback PSX-240 to transform the 240 Vac to 120 Vac (in order to
interface with the GVFX3648.<br>
<br>
When we looked into hooking the relay up to the AUX-OUT of the GVFX3648, we
discovered that it was already dedicated to the fan…<br>
<br>
So it looks like we will need to put something together to sense the battery
voltage and energize the relay coil, when we exceed the threshold. Any
recommendations for a add-on HVD? And exactly what threshold voltage should we
use for 8ea 6V 305 Ah (C/24) AGM batteries?<br>
<br>
And for Drake: I gravitated away from Xantrex because of a very unsatisfactory
experience with a XW6048. The system failed to work properly and Xantrex
“hemmed and hawed” for over six months. Bottom line: we made six
service calls, two firmware upgrades and probably two dozen calls to largely
clueless group tech supporters. Through it all, I lost the customer’s
confidence and he chose another integrator to do a follow on commercial
project. The last part of course was the worst part of the experience.<br>
<br>
- Peter <br>
</span></font> <br>
Hi Peter,<br>
<br>
The Outback inverter will not regulate battery charge while AC coupled.
The SMA is the only system designed to give a regulated charge to batteries in
the AC coupled mode. The Outback auxiliary relay can be used to drive a relay
that will disconnect the input to the inverter, to regulate battery charge when
grid is down. I like an "Ice Cube Rely" (such as Idec) to
control a contactor. The coil of the Idec uses very little power. <br>
<br>
Why did you gravitate toward Xantrex from Outback?<br>
<br>
Drake <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
At 09:25 PM 8/4/2009, you wrote:<br>
<br>
<font size=2 color=navy><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:navy'>I would like
to start a thread on AC-coupled grid tied battery backup systems. We do a fair
number of GTBBSs (four to five a year) and I have gravitated from the Outback
solution to the Xantrex XW solution. I am not happy with the XW product and
especially not happy with Xantrexs post sales technical support. I know I have
more to learn about these puppies in general, so I am genuinely disappointed
with the uneven TS from Xantrex.<br>
<br>
</span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy'>I also had this nagging
feeling that the heart of a GTBBS should be the tried and true high voltage
inverter. Enter the SunPower positive ground requirement, and now an AC coupled
system seems the best solution.<br>
<br>
>From the white paper that Outback sent me, there was no mention of a heavy
duty relay. Doesnt the Outback inverter regulate the battery charge control?<br>
<br>
Has anyone tried to order a SunWize Solar Ready Battery Assemblywithout the
charge controller (e.g. P/N SRB3.6). It would seem that this is a nice package
for small energy needs (13 to 26 kWh of battery backup). <br>
</span></font><br>
<font color=navy><span style='color:navy'>- Peter <br>
</span></font><img border=0 width=67 height=80 id="_x0000_i1025"
src="cid:7.1.0.9.0.20090920194015.01f1e3b8@redwoodalliance.org.1" alt="[]"><font
size=1 color=navy><span style='font-size:7.5pt;color:navy'>Peter T. Parrish,
Ph.D., President<br>
<st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">California</st1:place></st1:State>
Solar Engineering, Inc.<br>
<st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on">820 Cynthia Ave.</st1:Street>, <st1:City
w:st="on">Los Angeles</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">CA</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode
w:st="on">90065</st1:PostalCode></st1:address><br>
CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26<br>
<a href="mailto:peter.parrish@calsolareng.com">peter.parrish@calsolareng.com</a>
<br>
Ph 323-258-8883, <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Mobile</st1:place></st1:City>
323-839-6108, Fax
323-258-8885
<br>
</span></font><br>
<font color=navy><span style='color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org [ <a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" eudora=autourl>mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>William Miller<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, August 04, 2009
5:55 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">jryago@netscape.com</st1:PersonName>;
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">RE-wrenches</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [<st1:PersonName
w:st="on">RE-wrenches</st1:PersonName>] XW6048 parts problem<br>
</span></font> <br>
Jeff:<br>
<br>
I have a spare. They are not kept in the socket but are loose in a
bag. Send me your mailing address off list. I leave tomorrow for a
week, so I hope I see your address before I go.<br>
<br>
William<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
At 04:59 PM 8/4/2009, you wrote:<br>
<br>
Just completed a large residential grid/gen/solar/battery system using a XW6048
inverter.<br>
<br>
We are using a SunnyBoy inverter at the array and doing an AC coupled
backfeed. To do this we have installed a heavy duty relay in the output
of the SunnyBoy, and are using the aux. relay contacts on the XW unit to close
this relay when battery voltage is at high limit (during no load power outage
to prevent over-charging)<br>
<br>
Not sure if we lost it during installation, if it shook loose in shipment and
fell out, or was missing to begin with, but to connect to the aux. contacts in
th XW requires a very small green flat 5-pin connector which is missing.<br>
<br>
I contacted multiple people at Xantrex and their service center, waded through
their web site, and finally talked to a service tech. He advised that
"he was looking for an extra one of these connectors 6 months ago and
still has not received it, as these compoments are made and assembled in China
and they do not stock anything that is considered an assembly part used in
China to build their units."<br>
<br>
First, I did not realize these inverters were being assembled in <st1:country-region
w:st="on">China</st1:country-region>, and second, who ever heard of not stocking
a replacement part just because its made in <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">China</st1:place></st1:country-region>. If that were true, 95%
of everything sold today in US would not be able to order replacement parts.<br>
<br>
Anybody out their know if there is a Radio Shack type supplier where I can
order a bag of these and get on with the system startup and my life?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Jeff Yago<br>
<br>
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<font color=blue><span style='color:blue'>Drake Chamberlin<br>
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<p></x-sigsep><font size=3 color=blue face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'><x-sigsep>Drake Chamberlin<br>
<st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Athens</st1:place></st1:City> Electric<br>
OH License 44810<br>
CO License 3773<br>
NABCEP </span></font><font size=1 color=blue><span style='font-size:7.5pt;
color:blue'>TM </span></font><font color=blue><span style='color:blue'>Certified
PV Installer <br>
Office - 740-448-7328<br>
<st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Mobile</st1:place></st1:City> -
740-856-9648 </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
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