Nicely informative reply as usual, Jay. One thing about a gravity based energy storage system is: gravity cannot ever wear out, unlike (insert expletive here) chemical batteries. The pump and/or hydro generating gear could wear out in a "pumped storage" situation, of course...but still would probably require intervention/replacement far less often per unit of stored energy. Isn't it amazing how often chemical batteries continue to disappoint? I'm over that...so an idea like Keith's is bound to keep coming up.<br>
<br clear="all">Mick Abraham, Proprietor<br><a href="http://www.abrahamsolar.com">www.abrahamsolar.com</a><br><br>Voice: 970-731-4675<br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 7:11 PM, jay peltz <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jay@asis.com">jay@asis.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;">Hi Keith,<div><br></div><div>I get this question a lot.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>1. Best efficiency for a hydro from potential energy in to actual output watts( not including wire loss) is around 40-60% depending on the exact application, turbine etc.</div>
<div><br></div><div>2. Efficiencies of pumps, is around the same at best. </div><div><br></div><div>3. This won't replace the battery for off grid usage. Thats the short version, the long answer if needed.</div><div>
<br></div><div>4. While hydro is magic if you've got it, pumped storage</div><div><br></div><div>5. So we've got some big loss's, 35% efficient at best and 15% at worst. IE batteries are way more efficient than pumped storage.</div>
<div><br></div><div>jay</div><div><br></div><div>peltz Power</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div><div>On Aug 24, 2009, at 11:43 AM, Keith Cronin wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite">
<span style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;"><div>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 127, 64);"><div style="margin: 0px;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Hi</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Have any of you considered using PV to pump water to a holding area and releasing it and capturing the kinetic energy via a pelton wheel/hydro?</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">If so, what do we think are the efficiencies and value of doing such a project are? Meaning, back of the napkin, PV is + - 77% efficient, minus "x" to pump the water to "x" elevation and the net result of the hydro = "____% efficient"</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">It would be using the reservoir as the battery.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">There is approximately 300' of elevation from the PV system and water source to the reservoir area.</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">I recall about 15 years ago, I visited a member on this lists Vermont home and he had a pond at the top of his property, but i don't recall how the source got to the reservoir? Might have been naturally fed?</span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Anyway, the premise is, as grid access becomes more difficult to do, as the utility infrastructure gets saturated, what are our options for folks that want PV, but are limited in how much they are allowed to connect to the grid, without an interconnection study by a 3rd party to increase the comfort of the utility to have more non firm resources on their grid. We are seeing this happen here now and I was wondering if any of you have encountered this or are anticipating this in your areas?</span><br>
<br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Any suggestions, calcs, recommendations, feedback would be appreciated.</span><span> </span><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
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