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<div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></span></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span> </div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt"><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#000000" face="Helvetica"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><br></span></font>The one commonality to all of this is really the passion to constant learning. The Japanese have a word- Kaizen- constant improvement.<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Excellent, thanks for the new word. Unfortunately, I'm just not seeing any of that passion in the new people flocking to this industry.</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt"><div>Where it is peculiar to me, is to see us not being able to charge enough to take care of our families and co-workers (team mates) on the ship of life.<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Now you've hit the sore spot for us: we've worked and studied hard, spent countless unpaid hours contributing to this list for our mutual Kaizen, only to see a growing market that is not necessarily valuing our experience. The question is how do we get across to the customer why they should pay more for that experience and knowledge? How besides NABCEP, do we even demonstrate we have that knowledge?</div><div><br></div><div>Mahalo,</div><div><br></div><div>Ray</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt"><div>Aloha<br><br>Keith<br></div><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Joel Davidson <<a href="mailto:joel.davidson@sbcglobal.net">joel.davidson@sbcglobal.net</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, July 18, 2009 5:50:24 AM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Installers Education<br></font><br> <style></style> <div><font size="2" face="Arial">I agree. I have DIY customers who know more about PV systems than a lot of so-called PV professionals. Designing and installing PV systems is a continuous learning experience. We are practitioners because, like doctors, we practice our trade, expand our knowledge, and hone our skills. I tell people who wants to get in the PV business to put a PV system on their own home. People who tell me that they want to sell PV but can not go solar personally for whatever reason have less credibility. They get less respect from prospective customers who use the same reasons or excuses for not going solar. They either don't last long in the business or are in it only for the money. Granted, there are less operational nuances to a batteryless, grid-tied PV system than a battery-based system or wind or water generator, but living with your work is essential. It makes you keenly aware of unique subtleties and helps you better understand your customers concerns.</font></div> <div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div> <div><font size="2" face="Arial">Joel Davidson</font></div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;">----- Original Message ----- </div> <div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;"><b>From:</b> <a rel="nofollow" title="walters@taosnet.com" ymailto="mailto:walters@taosnet.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:walters@taosnet.com">R. Walters</a> </div> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow" title="re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches</a> </div> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, July 18, 2009 12:05 AM</div> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Installers Education</div> <div><br></div> <div><br></div> <div>For Off grid, no one should even attempt being a designer/ installer without living for a full year on their own off grid system. </div> <div>GT w/ batteries, you need off grid smarts and understand GT.</div> <div>Training newbies, I can't imagine them being able to do anything other than schlep modules/ do grunt work for a couple of years.</div> <div>I could see a licensed electrician with a year of full time training being able to do GT w/o batteries.</div> <div>Most of the market and all the growth is in the GT w/o batteries, so I think your training should concentrate there.</div> <div>I've taught a semester long PV class, and all I was able to do was create well educated consumers.</div> <div><br></div> <div> <div><span style="widows: 2; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; border-spacing: 0px; border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -x-system-font: none; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; letter-spacing: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); word-spacing: 0px;" class="Apple-style-span"> <div>R. Walters</div> <div><a target="_blank" href="http://Solarray.com">Solarray.com</a><span style="white-space: pre;" class="Apple-tab-span"></span></div> <div>NABCEP # 04170442<span style="white-space: pre;" class="Apple-tab-span"><span style="white-space: pre;" class="Apple-style-span"> <br> </span></span></div> <div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span></div><br> <div> <div>On Jul 17, 2009, at 9:44 AM, Keith Cronin wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> <blockquote type="cite"> <div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div>Hi gang<br><br>I was wondering, what percentage do you believe represents the ratio of classroom training to field training for PV and what percentage you believe should be performed by licensed electricians vs what is deemed mechanical work?<br><br>Residential Grid Tie w/out batteries<br>___% classroom- electrician<br>___% field- electrician<br><br>Residential Grid Tie w/out batteries<br>___% classroom- mechanical<br>___% field- mechanical<br><br>Commercial Grid Tie w/out batteries<br>___% classroom-electrician<br>___% field-electrician<br><br>Commercial Grid Tie w/out batteries<br>___% classroom-mechanical<br>___% field-mechanical<br><br>Residential GT with batteries<br>____% classroom-electrician<br>____% field-electrician<br><br>Residential GT with batteries<br>____% classroom-mechanical<br>____% field-mechanical<br><br>Any takers on the off grid market percentages?<br><br>Commercial w/ batteries is utility scale and I don't think it can be quantified today as the projects are generally design build and perhaps hard to put an exact # on these.<br><br>Thanks<br><br>Keith<br></div></div> <div style="margin: 0px;">_______________________________________________</div> <div style="margin: 0px;">List sponsored by Home Power magazine</div> <div style="margin: 0px; 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