<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hi Walt,<div><br></div><div>You are right! Gel batteries will give many more cycles than AGM's. And they cost more so you you are not getting an equivalent value by them suppling AGM's. <div><br></div><div>A very big downside to Gel is if you accidently over-voltage the battery, you can permanently ruin it. I have seen many battery banks damaged from accidental high voltage charging. For that reason, I mostly sell AGM (in my market). They also charge slower because of the reduced charge voltage required. Also they are not quite as efficient as AGM so it takes more power/time to fully recharge. </div><div><br></div><div>On the plus side, an AGM battery can be equalized if needed but never a Gel battery. Hope this helps.<div><br><div> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Lucida Sans'; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; "><div><div>Kindest Regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Larry Crutcher</div><div>Starlight Solar</div><div>(928) 941-1660</div><div>Renewable Energy Products, Service and Installation</div><div><br></div><div>Mailing Address (NO SHIPPING):</div><div>11881 S Fortuna Rd.</div><div>#210</div><div>Yuma, AZ 85367</div><div><br></div></div><div>Shipping and retail store (NO MAIL):</div><div>2998 Shari Ave </div><div>Yuma, AZ 85365</div></span></div></div></div></div></div><div><br></div></div></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> </div><br><div><div>On Jun 30, 2009, at 2:43 PM, Walt Ratterman wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Lucida Sans'; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div bgcolor="white" lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="Section1"><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Hello,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Why do you say that AGM batteries are a better choice?<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I have been reading about the differences, and all I see (comparing DEKA Gel versus DEKA AGM is that the cycle life of the AGM (at 50% DOD) is 500 cycles versus 1000 cycles for the Gel.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">The AGM seems to have better resistance to freezing, but of course that is not a concern here.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">What are the benefits of AGM that I am missing here? (This could be important, because I was going to jump all over the fabricator for shipping AGM when the literature quotes GEL, and I was thinking GEL would have been a better choice. Maybe they were trying to right think, but I would need to be educated more here…<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Thanks!!<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Walt<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div style="border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wind-sun.com [<a href="mailto:windsun@wind-sun.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">mailto:windsun@wind-sun.com</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, June 30, 2009 7:30 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:wratterman@sunenergypower.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">wratterman@sunenergypower.com</a>; RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Boost Controller in Senegal<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">The AGM batteries are probably a better choice than gelled, but the fact that some are down to 5 volts is the real problem.</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">A typical AGM will lose around 1-2% charge per month at 25 degrees C. If they are at 5 volts, that indicates that they either sat around for over a year unused and uncharged, and possibly in a very high temperature environment. The 2nd possibility is that there is some kind of constant load on them, even when the units are not turned on - which would be poor design.</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">The Midnite controller is not available yet, so your only real choices with the panels you have are the Outback FM60 or the Xantrex XW-SCC - both of them are in the $600 range.</span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">..................................................................................................<br>Northern Arizona Wind & Sun - Electricity From The Sun Since 1979<br>Solar Discussion Forum:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/</a><br>..................................................................................................</span></div></div></div></div></span></blockquote></div></div></div></div></body></html>