<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">HI Allan,<div><br></div><div>I would like to throw out that there are other options.</div><div><br></div><div>You could use timers with electric valves if you had some idea of how much water each system might use, set a timer for each system.</div><div><br></div><div>Or you could use float valves with relays and electric valves to fill each tank as needed.</div><div><br></div><div>Just depends on how important the water is.</div><div><br></div><div>jay</div><div><br></div><div>peltz power</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Jun 13, 2009, at 11:34 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="blue"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PostalCode"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"><o:smarttagtype namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"><div class="Section1"><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">I agree with Brian and Mark on most of their comments, but here’s a bit more:<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">Mark is right, there’s no way to separately control filling two tanks at different levels. I didn’t read that section very carefully. Brian’s float valve approach and sequential filling is about the only approach. But given that a float valve failure could be catastrophic (5,000 gallons flowing back down) you might want to add a check valve on the line to the higher tank, if the line from the well to the two tanks is shared.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">Remember, too, that the total dynamic head is measured from the water level in the well, not the pump level. That means your tdh on the far well is something less than 220’, or about 97 psi (plus friction head). Assuming you don’t have 3,000 feet of signal cable in the ground, the P2Flow approach would likely work well. Their 0-100psi transducer has a resolution of 0.1 psi. Make sure to add a check valve where the line leaves the well, so as to be unaffected by fluctuations of the water level in the well, and put the pressure-sensing transducer after the check valve, so that it only measures head determined by the tank level. We’re working with a similar application here in<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><st1:state w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">New Mexico</st1:place></st1:state>, so I’m learning this too.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">One respectful disagreement with Mark: The 3SQF-3 Grundfos is officially rated to 656’. I hear it will do well more than that, but no direct experience. I would not recommend the Lorentz after multiple failures back when Dankoff (now Conergy) was the sole North American distributor. (We are in<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><st1:city w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Santa Fe</st1:place></st1:city><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>so do will call pickups for most orders. Don’t ask me to describe seeing pallets of junk Lorentz pumps outside their warehouse, waiting to head to the recycler.)<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">Allan Sindelar<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; "><a href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">Allan@positiveenergysolar.com</a></span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; ">NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; ">EE98J Journeyman Electrician</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">Positive Energy, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">3201 Calle Marie<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">Santa Fe</span></font></st1:city><font color="black"><span style="color: black; ">,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><st1:state w:st="on">New Mexico</st1:state><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><st1:postalcode w:st="on">87507</st1:postalcode></span></font></st1:place><font color="black"><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">505 424-1112<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="black" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: black; "><a href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.positiveenergysolar.com</a></span></font><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; text-align: center; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><hr size="2" width="100%" align="center" tabindex="-1"></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold; ">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a> [<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b>Brian Teitelbaum<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Sent:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, June 12, 2009 2:18 AM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">To:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>RE-wrenches<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Subject:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [RE-wrenches] Design help for solar water pumping application</span></font><o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Hi Lee,<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">I don’t know how the two tanks are laid out physically, but if they happen to be installed in a way that you could run one pipeline up to the tank at 200’ and go from there to the other tank, you might try using a float valve in the lower tank and a float switch in the upper tank. The lower tank’s inlet would just be “teed” off of the pipeline going to the upper tank. The lower tank will fill first, being the path of least resistance. When it is full, the float valve closes sending water through the pipeline to the upper tank. When the upper tank is full, the float switch would turn the pump off.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">The distance to the float switch in the upper tank is a bit far, but you should be OK if you use a larger gauge wire than usual. I think that 18 gauge would be fine, but 16 gauge would be better. If it is line-of-site, you might look into doing a wireless control , but that would mean that you need a small PV module and a battery up there.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Go with the 1 ½” pipe<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Not to contradict Mark (Ok…I guess that I am!) The Grundfos model 3 SQF-3 will do 600’<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">As to Allen’s comment about array size, he is correct about the pump drawing a max of 900W. However, if you only put a 900W array on the pump, it will only pump at max volume at mid-day. If you put a larger array on the pump, the array will produce 900W in less light (morning and afternoon) and produce a lot more gallons per day (GPD). The GPM figure of a solar pump is really only relevant for making sure that you don’t over pump a low yielding well. It’s really GPD that counts. That 1.36kW array might produce 900W at 9AM and 3PM, giving you a solid six hours of max output pumping. No problem over sizing the array – the pump will only draw what it needs. If you have really good exposure to the sky, you can use a tracker to increase GPD instead of over sizing the PV.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">According to my info, with 250” of head (220’ plus pipe friction loss) you can get about 2000 GPD (summer) with the Grundfos model 6 SQF-2 and about 700W of PV in a fixed array, with a peak flow of 4.5 GPM. Adding more PV will give you more GPD. With the model 11 SQF-2, you can get up to about 4300 GPD with a 1750W array at that head. If you needed even more water volume, and the well produced it, you could even put two pumps in the well (with separate arrays). I had one dealer who managed to put two Grundfos pumps down a 5” casing! He said that it all went easy….but I don’t believe him. He did have a curious issue though. He said that if he turned one pump off with its CU200, both pumps would shut down, even though the other pump was not connected to that CU200. He couldn’t just run one pump. I never did talk to Grundfos about that.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Cheers!<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Brian Teitelbaum<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">AEE Solar<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div><div style="border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold; ">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a> [<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b>Mark Dickson<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Sent:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:40 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">To:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'RE-wrenches'<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Subject:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [RE-wrenches] Design help for solar water pumping application<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">Hey Lee,<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">Allan is right in that the WINcaps software is a lifesaver and FREE! Not to contradict Allan, but I do not see a feasible way of using two float switches in separate tanks with only one pump controller. Also, the 3000’ distance is a little far—they usually recommend a max distance of 1600’ for the float switches. Lastly, if you are ever worried about the head, the Lorentz pumps can pump up to 760’ --more than double the recommended for Grundfos. <o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">I highly recommend Genpro Energy Solutions as a pump distributor for both of those brands. They always answer the phone, are personable and return emails (hint, hint Conergy)!<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Comic Sans MS"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: navy; ">Mark Dickson</span></font><font color="navy"><span style="color: navy; "><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Comic Sans MS"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: navy; ">Oasis Montana Inc.</span></font><font color="navy"><span style="color: navy; "><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Comic Sans MS"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: navy; "><a href="http://www.oasismontana.com/" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; "><font color="#497699"><span style="color: rgb(73, 118, 153); ">www.oasismontana.com</span></font></a></span></font><font color="navy"><span style="color: navy; "><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="navy" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: navy; "> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="#497699" face="Comic Sans MS"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: rgb(73, 118, 153); "><a href="http://www.grid-tie.com/" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.grid-tie.com</a></span></font><font color="navy"><span style="color: navy; "><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="navy" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: navy; "> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Comic Sans MS"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'; color: navy; "><a href="http://www.pvsolarpumps.com/" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; "><font color="#497699"><span style="color: rgb(73, 118, 153); ">www.PVsolarpumps.com</span></font></a></span></font><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; text-align: center; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><hr size="2" width="100%" align="center"></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold; ">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b>Allan Sindelar<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Sent:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, June 11, 2009 2:28 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">To:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'RE-wrenches'<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Subject:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [RE-wrenches] Design help for solar water pumping application</span></font><o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">Lee,<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">You can get Grundfos’ WINCaps software from your RE or pump supplier; some will run the sizing for you (Jeremy at Conergy does for us). I didn’t check your head and flow, but I would expect that’s about your only good pump choice at that head. Add a tracker if you need greater summer output; don’t attempt batteries as a solution. If usage occasionally exceeds output, add an IO101 control and allow the pump to run off any AC source at night. A tiny 1,200W inverter/generator will work at sea level. Use a CU200 controller to allow a float or level detector switch to turn off the pump when tanks are full. Mercury-based float switches last longer in signal circuits that carry no current. If you can’t use a float switch because the lines are already buried, look into<a href="http://www.p2flow.com/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.P2Flow.com</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>for pressure transducer-based control. Read the website info, then call Britt there with your specific application. That array sounds oversized, as the pump draws a maximum of 900 watts. Hope this helps.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">Allan Sindelar<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><a href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; "><font size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; ">Allan@positiveenergysolar.com</span></font></a><font color="black"><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; ">NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: black; ">EE98J Journeyman Electrician</span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">Positive Energy, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">3201 Calle Marie<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">Santa Fe</span></font></st1:city><font color="black"><span style="color: black; ">,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><st1:state w:st="on">New Mexico</st1:state><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><st1:postalcode w:st="on">87507</st1:postalcode></span></font></st1:place><font color="black"><span style="color: black; "><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">505 424-1112<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><a href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; "><font size="2" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; ">www.positiveenergysolar.com</span></font></a><o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; text-align: center; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><hr size="2" width="100%" align="center"></span></font></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold; ">From:</span></font></b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b>Lee Bristol<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Sent:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, June 11, 2009 1:26 PM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">To:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold; ">Subject:</span></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[RE-wrenches] Design help for solar water pumping application</span></font><o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "><o:p> </o:p></span></font></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">Solar Water Pumping Wrenches,<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">We normally don't do solar water pumping but a friend asked for some help designing his system. He has one well and two 5,000 gallon reservoirs to fill up. The average usage is expected to be about 2,000 gallons per day but may be higher in the summer. The tanks will have level detector switches to sense when the tank is full. The site is near<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on">Leesburg</st1:city>,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><st1:state w:st="on">VA.</st1:state></st1:place><o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">The problem is to design a control system to turn on the pump when one or both of the tanks needs water and to shut it off when both are full. The closest tank has a head requirement of 200 feet (pump to tank) and is 300 feet from the well head. The second tank head requirement is 220 feet and it is 3,000 feet from the well. The pipes are expected to be 1.25 or 1.5 inch.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">A Grundfos SQFlex 6 SQF-2 pump with 1.36 KW solar was recommended, 360 foot head, 360 gph. I think that this would provide the lift but not the quantity. Hmmmm, what valves and controls would you all suggest?<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; ">Thanks!<br clear="all">Lee<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br><br>List Address:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Options & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out participant bios:<br><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></o:smarttagtype></div></span></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>