<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:x="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:excel" xmlns:p="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:powerpoint" xmlns:a="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:access" xmlns:dt="uuid:C2F41010-65B3-11d1-A29F-00AA00C14882" xmlns:s="uuid:BDC6E3F0-6DA3-11d1-A2A3-00AA00C14882" xmlns:rs="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:rowset" xmlns:z="#RowsetSchema" xmlns:b="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:publisher" xmlns:ss="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:spreadsheet" xmlns:c="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:component:spreadsheet" xmlns:odc="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:odc" xmlns:oa="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:activation" xmlns:html="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:q="http://schemas.xmlsoap.org/soap/envelope/" xmlns:rtc="http://microsoft.com/officenet/conferencing" xmlns:D="DAV:" xmlns:Repl="http://schemas.microsoft.com/repl/" xmlns:mt="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/meetings/" xmlns:x2="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/excel/2003/xml" xmlns:ppda="http://www.passport.com/NameSpace.xsd" xmlns:ois="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/ois/" xmlns:dir="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/directory/" xmlns:ds="http://www.w3.org/2000/09/xmldsig#" xmlns:dsp="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/dsp" xmlns:udc="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema" xmlns:sub="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/2002/1/alerts/" xmlns:ec="http://www.w3.org/2001/04/xmlenc#" xmlns:sp="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/" xmlns:sps="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/" xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:udcs="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/soap" xmlns:udcxf="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/xmlfile" xmlns:udcp2p="http://schemas.microsoft.com/data/udc/parttopart" xmlns:wf="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/workflow/" xmlns:dsss="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/digsig-setup" xmlns:dssi="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2006/digsig" xmlns:mdssi="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/package/2006/digital-signature" xmlns:mver="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/markup-compatibility/2006" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns:mrels="http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/package/2006/relationships" xmlns:spwp="http://microsoft.com/sharepoint/webpartpages" xmlns:ex12t="http://schemas.microsoft.com/exchange/services/2006/types" xmlns:ex12m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/exchange/services/2006/messages" xmlns:pptsl="http://schemas.microsoft.com/sharepoint/soap/SlideLibrary/" xmlns:spsl="http://microsoft.com/webservices/SharePointPortalServer/PublishedLinksService" xmlns:Z="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:" xmlns:st="" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
panose-1:3 15 7 2 3 3 2 2 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle17
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";
color:black;
font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal;}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy;}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hi Lee,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I don’t know how the two tanks are laid out physically,
but if they happen to be installed in a way that you could run one pipeline up
to the tank at 200’ and go from there to the other tank, you might try
using a float valve in the lower tank and a float switch in the upper tank. The
lower tank’s inlet would just be “teed” off of the pipeline
going to the upper tank. The lower tank will fill first, being the path of
least resistance. When it is full, the float valve closes sending water through
the pipeline to the upper tank. When the upper tank is full, the float switch
would turn the pump off.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The distance to the float switch in the upper tank is a bit far,
but you should be OK if you use a larger gauge wire than usual. I think that 18
gauge would be fine, but 16 gauge would be better. If it is line-of-site, you
might look into doing a wireless control , but that would mean that you need a
small PV module and a battery up there.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Go with the 1 ½” pipe<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Not to contradict Mark (Ok…I guess that I am!) The
Grundfos model 3 SQF-3 will do 600’<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>As to Allen’s comment about array size, he is correct
about the pump drawing a max of 900W. However, if you only put a 900W array on
the pump, it will only pump at max volume at mid-day. If you put a larger array
on the pump, the array will produce 900W in less light (morning and afternoon)
and produce a lot more gallons per day (GPD). The GPM figure of a solar pump is
really only relevant for making sure that you don’t over pump a low yielding
well. It’s really GPD that counts. That 1.36kW array might produce 900W
at 9AM and 3PM, giving you a solid six hours of max output pumping. No problem
over sizing the array – the pump will only draw what it needs. If you
have really good exposure to the sky, you can use a tracker to increase GPD
instead of over sizing the PV.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>According to my info, with 250” of head (220’ plus
pipe friction loss) you can get about 2000 GPD (summer) with the Grundfos model
6 SQF-2 and about 700W of PV in a fixed array, with a peak flow of 4.5 GPM.
Adding more PV will give you more GPD. With the model 11 SQF-2, you can get up
to about 4300 GPD with a 1750W array at that head. If you needed even more
water volume, and the well produced it, you could even put two pumps in the
well (with separate arrays). I had one dealer who managed to put two Grundfos
pumps down a 5” casing! He said that it all went easy….but I don’t
believe him. He did have a curious issue though. He said that if he turned one
pump off with its CU200, both pumps would shut down, even though the other pump
was not connected to that CU200. He couldn’t just run one pump. I never
did talk to Grundfos about that.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Cheers!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Brian Teitelbaum<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>AEE Solar<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Mark
Dickson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 11, 2009 9:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'RE-wrenches'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Design help for solar water pumping
application<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Hey Lee, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Allan is right in that the WINcaps software is a lifesaver and
FREE! Not to contradict Allan, but I do not see a feasible way of using
two float switches in separate tanks with only one pump controller. Also,
the 3000’ distance is a little far—they usually recommend a max
distance of 1600’ for the float switches. Lastly, if you are ever
worried about the head, the Lorentz pumps can pump up to 760’ --more than
double the recommended for Grundfos. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>I highly recommend Genpro Energy Solutions as a pump distributor
for both of those brands. They always answer the phone, are personable
and return emails (hint, hint Conergy)!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Best, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:navy'>Mark Dickson</span><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:navy'>Oasis Montana Inc.</span><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:navy'><a href="http://www.oasismontana.com/" target="_blank"><span
style='color:#497699'>www.oasismontana.com</span></a></span><span
style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:#497699'><a href="http://www.grid-tie.com/" target="_blank">www.grid-tie.com</a></span><span
style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:navy'><a href="http://www.pvsolarpumps.com/" target="_blank"><span
style='color:#497699'>www.PVsolarpumps.com</span></a> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Allan Sindelar<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 11, 2009 2:28 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'RE-wrenches'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Design help for solar water pumping
application</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Lee,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>You can get Grundfos’
WINCaps software from your RE or pump supplier; some will run the sizing for
you (Jeremy at Conergy does for us). I didn’t check your head and flow,
but I would expect that’s about your only good pump choice at that head.
Add a tracker if you need greater summer output; don’t attempt batteries
as a solution. If usage occasionally exceeds output, add an IO101 control and
allow the pump to run off any AC source at night. A tiny 1,200W
inverter/generator will work at sea level. Use a CU200 controller to allow a
float or level detector switch to turn off the pump when tanks are full.
Mercury-based float switches last longer in signal circuits that carry no
current. If you can’t use a float switch because the lines are already
buried, look into <a href="http://www.p2flow.com/">www.P2Flow.com</a> for
pressure transducer-based control. Read the website info, then call Britt there
with your specific application. That array sounds oversized, as the pump draws
a maximum of 900 watts. Hope this helps.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Allan Sindelar<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>Allan@positiveenergysolar.com</span></a><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>NABCEP Certified
Photovoltaic Installer</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>EE98J Journeyman
Electrician</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Positive Energy, Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>3201 Calle Marie<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>505 424-1112<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>www.positiveenergysolar.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Lee
Bristol<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 11, 2009 1:26 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Design help for solar water pumping application</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Solar Water Pumping Wrenches,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>We normally don't do solar water pumping but a friend asked
for some help designing his system. He has one well and two 5,000 gallon
reservoirs to fill up. The average usage is expected to be about 2,000
gallons per day but may be higher in the summer. The tanks will have
level detector switches to sense when the tank is full. The
site is near Leesburg, VA.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>The problem is to design a control system to turn on the
pump when one or both of the tanks needs water and to shut it off when both are
full. The closest tank has a head requirement of 200 feet (pump to
tank) and is 300 feet from the well head. The second tank head
requirement is 220 feet and it is 3,000 feet from the well. The
pipes are expected to be 1.25 or 1.5 inch.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>A Grundfos SQFlex 6 SQF-2 pump with 1.36 KW solar was
recommended, 360 foot head, 360 gph. I think that this would provide the
lift but not the quantity. Hmmmm, what valves and controls would you all
suggest?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Thanks!<br clear=all>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Lee<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
-- <br>
Lee Bristol<br>
NABCEP Certified Solar Designer/Installer<br>
<br>
Chief Technology Officer<br>
Standard Solar, Inc.<br>
202 Perry Parkway, #7<br>
Gaithersburg, MD 20877<br>
(301) 944-5105<br>
(240) 479-1510 (c)<br>
<a href="http://www.standardsolar.com">www.standardsolar.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>