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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Can
anyone recommend a group health plan for a 10 person company? We are a mix of
married with children, single parents and singles; all ages (20's to 50). We
would prefer a recommendation based on experience with claims as well as plan
specifics and price.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Please
respond on RE-Marketing list.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>-
Peter</span></font></p>
<div>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial;color:navy'>Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President<br>
California Solar Engineering, Inc.<br>
820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065<br>
Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885<br>
CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26<br>
peter.parrish@calsolareng.com</span></font><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'> </span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Antony Tersol<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Saturday, May 09, 2009 11:28
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [RE-wrenches] Fwd: Module
Datasheets</span></font></p>
</div>
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12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
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face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>---------- Forwarded
message ----------<br>
From: <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Antony Tersol</span></b> <<a
href="mailto:tony@appliedsolarenergy.com">tony@appliedsolarenergy.com</a>><br>
Date: Fri, May 8, 2009 at 3:41 PM<br>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Module Datasheets<br>
To: Matt Lafferty <<a href="mailto:gilligan06@gmail.com">gilligan06@gmail.com</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
Matt,<br>
<br>
I have been thinking and working about this very problem as well, and would
extend the thought:<br>
<br>
Not only is there inconsistency on data presentation, how about the time to
find the data sheets in the first place? Sometimes easy, sometimes
not. And we are all duplicating that work.<br>
<br>
My idea: the centralized database you mention.<br>
<br>
Just days ago I started working on the input form to collect the data.
See: <a
href="http://spreadsheets.google.com/embeddedform?key=rFu1o0R5IohZNQx5Zvqli_A"
target="_blank">http://spreadsheets.google.com/embeddedform?key=rFu1o0R5IohZNQx5Zvqli_A</a><br>
<br>
I didn't include all the fields Matt mentions, but this is a work in
progress. The idea is that by collaborating, the labor involved becomes
manage-able. <br>
<br>
The data can be entered a couple of different ways - if each of us enters a
module or 2, we build up a resource we can all use, which will have the
consistency we would like. At a certain point, we tell the module manufacturers
to enter their own data, but in our mandated format. If we as wrenches
are using this as a primary resource, the manufacturer that neglects to enter
their data does it at their own peril. If there is a compelling reason to
use their module, someone might enter the data.<br>
<br>
So the model is Wiki like - one variation is that you only get access to the
data if you contribute data.<br>
<br>
In the next days I'll post a page that shows a list of modules already entered
and then people could try it out - they could grab a data sheet, do the data
entry, and enter their email address in the "data entry person" field
and I'll send a link to the collected data. <br>
<br>
Perhaps we should move this discussion offlist for those that are interested
and continue work - decide on what fields, data presentation, etc.<br>
<br>
We can do the same thing for inverters.<br>
<br>
Antony Tersol<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 10:26 AM, Matt Lafferty wrote:</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 10:25:51 -0700<br>
From: Matt Lafferty <<a href="mailto:gilligan06@gmail.com" target="_blank">gilligan06@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Module Datasheets<br>
To: "RE Wrenches" <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:solar@sec.sanyo.com" target="_blank">solar@sec.sanyo.com</a><br>
Message-ID: <002901c9d002$0bae3cd0$654990a9@GILLIGONE><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Wrenches,<br>
<br>
If you are anything like me, you've spent a big part of your PV career being
P*#%ed Off at manufacturers for the arcane content and format of their<br>
Datasheets. They have refused to agree on a standard set of info, and order of
presentation. I understand how the simple-minded marketing peeps want it<br>
that way...The harder it is for the user to actually compare products on<br>
their primary merits, the less likely it is that they will do it. I also<br>
understand that translation into Plain English and US Wrench Culture is<br>
difficult, but there aren't that many "r"s in "PV Module".<br>
<br>
I'd like to toss out some thoughts and solicit feedback on the topic. Some<br>
of you have heard this from me for years now. Here's the 2009 Version.<br>
<br>
General thoughts:<br>
<br>
* The data should be complete and clearly visible on the
Datasheet...<br>
You shouldn't have to dig through the fluffy crap on the front of the sheet<br>
to find technical details. Front of sheet = {Pretty Pictures}. Back of sheet<br>
= Stuff I need to select your module and design an entire system with.<br>
<br>
* All relevant "Model Numbers" should be clearly
identified. When<br>
there are variations of a model, say for instance different connectors, it<br>
only makes sense to include all variations on a single sheet.<br>
<br>
* They should all abide by IEC 61836 conventions for
Symbols (Voc,<br>
Vpmax, Isc, Ipmax, etc).<br>
<br>
* Max System Voltage<br>
<br>
* Series Fuse Rating<br>
<br>
* Bypass Diode<br>
<br>
* Cell Type / Technology (Also need to standardize these
symbols)<br>
<br>
* For US modules, dimensions should be in inches and
weight should be<br>
in pounds. Metric values can be in parentheses AFTER the inches & pounds,
of<br>
course. Sorry Canada.<br>
<br>
* Dimensions should follow LxWxH convention<br>
<br>
* Temperature coefficients should be stated for Voltage
(Voc & Vpmax),<br>
Current (Isc & Ipmax), and Power. They should all use a single convention,<br>
vis a vis a hard coefficient or percentage, but not a mix. My vote is that<br>
the standard convention be percentage. I imagine a couple of you engineers<br>
will disagree, but you're wrong. ;-)<br>
<br>
* Power tolerance should be stated.<br>
<br>
* Module lead data, if applicable. Gauge, Type, Length,
Connector Type<br>
and Model.<br>
<br>
* For J-Box equipped modules, Qty & size of KO's in
J-Box.<br>
<br>
* Static Wind or Snow Load should be stated.<br>
<br>
* All certifications should be stated<br>
<br>
* Min/Max Temp<br>
<br>
* Shipping info. Pallet dims, weight, qty. Single module
shipping<br>
weight & dims.<br>
<br>
* Approved Equipment Grounding data. Size & Qty of
attachment points,<br>
Whether or not hardware is included.<br>
<br>
* Warranty.<br>
<br>
* Clear, dimensioned drawings. Include Section. (Inches
first, please)<br>
<br>
<br>
* Grounding attachment points shown on drawing(s).<br>
<br>
* There should be a standard convention for order of data<br>
presentation... i.e. Pmax, Voc, Vpmax, Isc, Ipmax, Max System Voltage... We<br>
can sort out what that should be, but it should be the same for everybody.<br>
<br>
* In this day and age, it's ludicrous that we don't have a
central,<br>
publicly accessible online database of this data. I believe it should be<br>
funded by module mfrs and administered by a non-partisan, respected<br>
organization... Hey NABCEP! Anybody who wants to talk more about achieving<br>
this, please let me know.<br>
<br>
I would like to send a shout-out to Sanyo for their recent HIT-Power<br>
datasheets. They don't comply with every item I mention above, but they are<br>
well presented and thorough. Like, everything I need to know in order to<br>
select and design with this module is here and I can read it and, frankly, I<br>
trust it. Can't say the latter about every product out there. "Oh. Did we<br>
forget to point out that +/- 10% means -10% but that's just the power<br>
characteristic, so your effective Pt-minus is really more like -12%?"<br>
<br>
In addition to being a top quality product, I believe Sanyo has set a good<br>
starting-point example for others to model their datasheets after. Oh my,<br>
what a lesson building an Ark can be!<br>
<br>
Here's a link to an example:<br>
<a
href="http://us.sanyo.com/dynamic/product/Downloads/HIT%20Power%20215N-12887676.pd%0Af"
target="_blank">http://us.sanyo.com/dynamic/product/Downloads/HIT%20Power%20215N-12887676.pd<br>
f</a> (Just over 1MB so I couldn't attach) For the purists on the list,
I'M NOT<br>
ADVERTISING so don't bug Michael with comments to that effect. If you feel<br>
the need to vent, send it to me directly.<br>
<br>
Check it out for yourselves. Compare it to what you're used to using. What's<br>
good about each? What could be better? How do we drive this message home to<br>
Mfrs?<br>
<br>
All comments welcome. On or off-list.<br>
<br>
-Matt Lafferty; Janitor<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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