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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>But seriously, how about getting in writing
from the customer that he/she is getting the opportunity to use a new
inverter design with new features<FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3> </FONT>but may also have some unknown design issues that could,
from time to time, require attention? <SPAN
class=640262815-30032009><FONT color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=640262815-30032009> </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=640262815-30032009>At
what point does an inverter, cc or other BOS components become something other
then a <FONT color=#000000>"the latest-and-greatest gadget in the beta-testing
process."</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=640262815-30032009>IF we
are to install components that have " <FONT color=#000000>have some unknown
design issues that could, from time to time, require attention? "<FONT
color=#0000ff>when do we</FONT> </FONT><FONT color=#0000ff>have the
understanding & the willingness from the manus to be compensated.Do we too
sign something from the manufacture? Hey no problem I'll travel 200 miles &
install your product cause you told me it wasn't too
reliable.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=640262815-30032009>I
don't think that the issue we are talking about is/ are Bata test
components.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=640262815-30032009> You can't tell me that the manufactures have
just had isolated incidents of product failure that they have chosen to
ignore.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=640262815-30032009>We the
installers, are the folks who have our reputations compromised by component
failures.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=640262815-30032009>I
can't wait for my next customer to hear that they need to sign a paper
indicating that the products might work , might not, but solar is reaaalllly
reliable.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=640262815-30032009>Again
I DO NOT put all the blame on the manufactures but having a qc guideline not
only for installations but warrantee issues.This just might be a better way to
prevent problems & then to fix issues that arise due to product failure in
which that both parties agree on.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=640262815-30032009><SPAN
class=640262815-30032009>What you did w/ Omni is exactly what I am talking
about.</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=640262815-30032009><SPAN
class=640262815-30032009>These issues are not new to the industry but getting
the manufactures to discuss & work on guide lines for testing for failures
in the field & compensating those individuals that comply w/ the test
process in order to address these issues
IS!</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=640262815-30032009> NO sarcasm intended.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=640262815-30032009></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=640262815-30032009> </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Joel
Davidson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 30, 2009 10:50 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
RE-wrenches<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] Inverters and their
Manufacturers<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Not buying equipment that does not work. Excuse
my sarcasm, but what a concept. </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>How about not
pushing manufacturers to release their products prematurely? No
one on this list would ever do that - more sarcasm.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>But seriously, how about getting in writing
from the customer that he/she is getting the opportunity to use a
new inverter design with new features</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
size=2>but may also have some unknown design issues that could, from time to
time, require attention? In conjunction with the customer
warning, get the manufacturer's cooperation to share call-back
and repair or replacement costs. In other words, involve your customers
who want the latest-and-greatest gadget in the beta-testing
process.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Some of you heard this story before, but it is
worth repeating. Several years ago, I did a project with 250 Omnion
inverters. Omnion inverters were not very reliable but they were all we
had at the time. Infant mortality rate was over 6%. The manufacturer
blamed the installers and I blamed inadequate factory final
testing. Hans Myers, Omnion owner, was a good engineer and a reasonable guy.
He agreed to switch from 8 hours factory burn-in to 3 days burn-in before
shipping. I agreed to have installers follow a specific installation
procedure (send for copy off-list) and sign-off on their installation. Infant
mortality rate dropped to 0%. Lesson learned: work with your suppliers to the
benefit of your customers and your bottom line.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Joel Davidson</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=tump@hughes.net href="mailto:tump@hughes.net">Tump</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">'RE-wrenches'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 30, 2009 4:34
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] Iverters and
their Manufacturers COMPENSATIONcheck list?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468075210-30032009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Perhaps this might be an additional reason to really work on the
installer's guild. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468075210-30032009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>If
this trend continues (it hasn't changed since the beginning) then we as a
group might single out one Manu per month & NOT purchases their product.
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468075210-30032009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Two things might happen; </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468075210-30032009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>1)They might then have the time to actually build products that have
a bit better reliability .</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468075210-30032009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>2) If there is a problem WHEN we start to buy their product the
Manu's realize WE the installers, who SELL & INSTALL their
products + put food on their tables, have THE POWER to
affect their bottom line as they do w/ ours due to lost opportunity
costs & expenses incurred while replacing faulty
equipment.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468075210-30032009>
<DIV><SPAN class=468075210-30032009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Probably wouldn't take too long for one of the manufactures to
hear from their distributors that they are not selling
anything.</FONT></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468075210-30032009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468075210-30032009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468075210-30032009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
will NOT say that all the problems are due to Manu's problems.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468075210-30032009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
know that I am guilty of not ALWAYS checking the basics & blaming things
that ARE NOT fault of the Manu's but loose wires that. "I swear I checked or
my wires never loosened up".</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV></SPAN><SPAN class=468075210-30032009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Many of us have offered suggestions regarding trouble shooting
issues in the past & Bill B has put together a "installers check
list''.How about it Bill?, knowing you, this is something you put together
back at PVusa oh those many years ago</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468075210-30032009>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=468075210-30032009>This</SPAN> could be the start of a way to finally
develop a industry wide & Manu. accepted check list to properly assess
an issue & then the fix.</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468075210-30032009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>How about is you manufactures, think this may be a way to compensate
the installers that DO have an issue w/ your products & not their
installations.</FONT></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>Peter Parrish<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 27, 2009 5:59
PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'RE-wrenches'<BR><B>Subject:</B> [RE-wrenches] Iverters
and their Manufacturers<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">I don’t know about the rest of this
group, but we have noticed a steady increase in inverter warranty calls.
It used to be one a year; then things started to increase to the point of
at least one per-month. In the beginning it was the just the GEC-1000s,
then the SMA EEPROM debacle, followed by the Fronius IG firmware problem,
followed by the Xantrex GT “controlled flight into terrain”. Now both
Outback systems we have installed recently have gone down (#@!?*). We are
finding that most manufacturers are essentially indifferent to installers
who are an integral part of their warranty obligation and are doing a poor
job of supporting installers for a variety of reasons, to
wit:</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">(1)<FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=1><SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">Outback will not reimburse installers period. Not for
anything that they do. They require that equipment be removed and sent to
WA for repair or replacement, or will ship replacement parts when the
problem is obvious, but that’s it. We have had one repair last month and
are facing a second in April. We paid extra for the CEC-grade warranty,
and I expected more. Based on this experience, I will not recommend or
sell Outback equipment, until this policy changes.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">(2)<FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=1><SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">Xantrex lost a returned GT inverter! They began
dunning us for it. We had the RMA on file but didn’t bother to write down
the tracking number from the Xantrex-generated UPS label (what am I going
to do with an inverter that won’t invert?). So not only will they not
process our request for reimbursement, they “want their inverter
back”.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">(3)<FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=1><SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">SMA didn’t want to honor payment on a service call
for an EEPROM swap out, even though I had an email from one of their
techies promising just that. After I produced the smoking gun, they
pointed out that we were about six weeks late in sending in the
reimbursement paperwork – they weren’t going to pay us. They’ve taken a
legally defensible position, but it makes for terrible public
relations.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">(4)<FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=1><SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN style="COLOR: black">I
thought Fronius might the only cowboy wearing a white hat, but no. They
want us to wait a month before reimbursing not us but our distributor who
only had the misfortune of selling us bad merchandise. How we manage (and
when) to get reimbursed from our distributor, only time will tell, but I
bet they won’t cut us a check.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">But I am saving my best story for
last…</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">(5)<FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=1><SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">Xantrex II: we had a terrible time getting an XW6048
to work properly (the details are unimportant, except to say the design
was spot on). I made six service calls after installing it last Summer. I
did a firmware upgrade, tightened even terminal and wiggled every wire I
could. I checked the module connections and the PV combiner box. We
programmed and reprogrammed every possible system parameter, to no avail.
After about 4 months (5?), I refused to make any more service calls
without a Xantrex technician at my side, and the customer threatened to
see an attorney. Xantrex eventually sent a technician down to Los Angeles
and administered another firmware upgrade and the system settled down. Do
you think they are willing to pay for any of our post-install service
calls? </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">I don’t switch vendors very often or
without good reason, but I don’t expect to sell another Outback based
system, nor do I expect to sell another GT. I am trying to convince my
salesmen to sell the Sunny Island system over the Xantrex XW product (for
a number of reasons) even though it is a more expensive proposition.
</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Is the following too much to ask
for? </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">- Superior, real-time technical
support in the field, including generation of an RMA on the
spot</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">- Replacement equipment promptly
shipped with prepaid shipping labels for the return of the defective
item.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">- Receipt of defective equipment by
the manufacturer, triggers installer payment without the requirement of
submitting a separate invoice.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">- Direct payment to company
servicing the equipment, within 30 days of the service.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">I am not aware of a single Company
out there which meets the above four criteria, but I haven’t looked
closely at PVP or some of the others. All other things being equal, I
would really like to get behind a manufacturer of quality inverters who
also treats installers as partners in the warranty department, and be able
to extol their virtues to customers. In the next breath, I will patiently
explain to the prospective customer the hazards of purchasing an inverter
from a Company that does not have a sound and equitable warranty
policy.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Any thoughts? And let’s remember, at
least on this list, they are all listening…</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">- Peter</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Peter T. Parrish,
Ph.D., President<BR>California Solar Engineering, Inc.<BR>820 Cynthia
Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065<BR>Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax
323-258-8885<BR>CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert.
031806-26<BR>peter.parrish@calsolareng.com</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial
color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
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