<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.5726" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE>@font-face {
font-family: Wingdings;
}
@font-face {
font-family: Arial Narrow;
}
@page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; }
P.MsoNormal {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"
}
LI.MsoNormal {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"
}
DIV.MsoNormal {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"
}
H1 {
FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 16pt; MARGIN: 12pt 0in 3pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial
}
H3 {
FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 6pt 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; LETTER-SPACING: -0.5pt
}
A:link {
COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline
}
SPAN.MsoHyperlink {
COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline
}
A:visited {
COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline
}
SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {
COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline
}
P {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"
}
P.alist {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.15in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"
}
LI.alist {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.15in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"
}
DIV.alist {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.15in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"
}
P.ahead3 {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 6pt 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; LETTER-SPACING: -0.5pt
}
LI.ahead3 {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 6pt 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; LETTER-SPACING: -0.5pt
}
DIV.ahead3 {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 6pt 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; LETTER-SPACING: -0.5pt
}
P.StyleaparaJustifiedAfter0pt {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial Narrow"; TEXT-ALIGN: justify
}
LI.StyleaparaJustifiedAfter0pt {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial Narrow"; TEXT-ALIGN: justify
}
DIV.StyleaparaJustifiedAfter0pt {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial Narrow"; TEXT-ALIGN: justify
}
P.alistnead {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial
}
LI.alistnead {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial
}
DIV.alistnead {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial
}
P.anumlist {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"
}
LI.anumlist {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"
}
DIV.anumlist {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"
}
P.aHead1 {
FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 16pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 6pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; TEXT-ALIGN: center
}
LI.aHead1 {
FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 16pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 6pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; TEXT-ALIGN: center
}
DIV.aHead1 {
FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 16pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 6pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; TEXT-ALIGN: center
}
P.StyleHeading3Left0Firstline0 {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 6pt 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; LETTER-SPACING: -0.5pt
}
LI.StyleHeading3Left0Firstline0 {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 6pt 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; LETTER-SPACING: -0.5pt
}
DIV.StyleHeading3Left0Firstline0 {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 6pt 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; LETTER-SPACING: -0.5pt
}
P.a-text {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"
}
LI.a-text {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"
}
DIV.a-text {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"
}
P.apara {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: 0.35in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"
}
LI.apara {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: 0.35in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"
}
DIV.apara {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: 0.35in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"
}
P.StyleHeading1Centered {
FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 16pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 6pt 0.5in; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; TEXT-ALIGN: center
}
LI.StyleHeading1Centered {
FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 16pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 6pt 0.5in; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; TEXT-ALIGN: center
}
DIV.StyleHeading1Centered {
FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 16pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 6pt 0.5in; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; TEXT-ALIGN: center
}
P.Styleapara1TimesNewRomanFirstline025 {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: 0.25in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; LETTER-SPACING: -0.25pt; TEXT-ALIGN: justify
}
LI.Styleapara1TimesNewRomanFirstline025 {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: 0.25in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; LETTER-SPACING: -0.25pt; TEXT-ALIGN: justify
}
DIV.Styleapara1TimesNewRomanFirstline025 {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: 0.25in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; LETTER-SPACING: -0.25pt; TEXT-ALIGN: justify
}
P.PPAhead {
FONT-SIZE: 16pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial
}
LI.PPAhead {
FONT-SIZE: 16pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial
}
DIV.PPAhead {
FONT-SIZE: 16pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial
}
P.aparabullet {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; LETTER-SPACING: -0.25pt; TEXT-ALIGN: justify
}
LI.aparabullet {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; LETTER-SPACING: -0.25pt; TEXT-ALIGN: justify
}
DIV.aparabullet {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; LETTER-SPACING: -0.25pt; TEXT-ALIGN: justify
}
P.AAbulllist1 {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"
}
LI.AAbulllist1 {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"
}
DIV.AAbulllist1 {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"
}
P.AAbulllist2 {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"
}
LI.AAbulllist2 {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"
}
DIV.AAbulllist2 {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 1in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"
}
P.Equation {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 6pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; TEXT-ALIGN: center
}
LI.Equation {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 6pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; TEXT-ALIGN: center
}
DIV.Equation {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 6pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; TEXT-ALIGN: center
}
P.WrightPara {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.25in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"
}
LI.WrightPara {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.25in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"
}
DIV.WrightPara {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt 0.25in; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"
}
SPAN.EmailStyle36 {
COLOR: black
}
DIV.Section1 {
page: Section1
}
OL {
MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in
}
UL {
MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0in
}
</STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY lang=EN-US
style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; webkit-nbsp-mode: space; webkit-line-break: after-white-space"
vLink=blue link=blue bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>We all define beta test units differently. For
example, with cars, I don't buy the first year model so I got the 2001 Prius,
but I did trade it in for the 2006 because it was an improvement over the
earlier models. With inverters, I really like my 11 year old Trace SW4048 but
wanted to expand my system with a batteryless inverter so I got an SMA as they
have tens of thousands of reliable units in the field. Believe me, I was tempted
to buy a US-made inverter, but I read too many wrenches' comments about
problems and do not have the time or money to mess around. Matt's list will
be a valuable tool for flushing out problems.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Of course you are not going to ask your average
customer to try a new inverter and sign a waiver or whatever you want to
call it. But a lot of customers want the latest-and-greatest widget, so be
honest with them and tell them that you have not installed any or only X number
of what they want. For your average customers, only sell them reliable equipment
backed by reliable companies who work with you to solve problems quickly in the
customer's favor and not out of your pocket.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regarding manufacturers, I have been general
manager of 2 PV factories and I know a lot of people in manufacturing of
all kinds of products. Almost all the techie managers are knowledgeable,
dedicated people who really want to make the best product. But problems
happen. The good news is techie managers are great problem solvers. Several
wrenches are working with manufacturers and know how difficult it is to decide
when to pull the trigger to release a new product or to shoot it
down.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>So the next time your customers say they want
the latest technology, tell them the truth. New products have
problems. They can either buy tried-and-true reliable equipment or accept
the responsibility for trying something new.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Joel Davidson</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=tump@hughes.net href="mailto:tump@hughes.net">Tump</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">'RE-wrenches'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 30, 2009 9:00
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] Inverters and
their Manufacturers</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>But seriously, how about getting in writing
from the customer that he/she is getting the opportunity to use a
new inverter design with new features<FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3> </FONT>but may also have some unknown design issues that could,
from time to time, require attention? <SPAN
class=640262815-30032009><FONT color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=640262815-30032009></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=640262815-30032009>At
what point does an inverter, cc or other BOS components become something other
then a <FONT color=#000000>"the latest-and-greatest gadget in the beta-testing
process."</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=640262815-30032009>IF
we are to install components that have " <FONT color=#000000>have some
unknown design issues that could, from time to time, require attention?
"<FONT color=#0000ff>when do we</FONT> </FONT><FONT color=#0000ff>have the
understanding & the willingness from the manus to be compensated.Do we too
sign something from the manufacture? Hey no problem I'll travel 200 miles
& install your product cause you told me it wasn't too
reliable.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=640262815-30032009>I
don't think that the issue we are talking about is/ are Bata test
components.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=640262815-30032009> You can't tell me that the manufactures have
just had isolated incidents of product failure that they have chosen to
ignore.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=640262815-30032009>We
the installers, are the folks who have our reputations compromised by
component failures.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=640262815-30032009>I
can't wait for my next customer to hear that they need to sign a paper
indicating that the products might work , might not, but solar is reaaalllly
reliable.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=640262815-30032009>Again I DO NOT put all the blame on the manufactures
but having a qc guideline not only for installations but warrantee issues.This
just might be a better way to prevent problems & then to fix issues that
arise due to product failure in which that both parties agree
on.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=640262815-30032009><SPAN class=640262815-30032009>What you did w/ Omni
is exactly what I am talking about.</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=640262815-30032009><SPAN class=640262815-30032009>These issues are not
new to the industry but getting the manufactures to discuss & work on
guide lines for testing for failures in the field & compensating those
individuals that comply w/ the test process in order
to address these issues IS!</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=640262815-30032009> NO sarcasm intended.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=640262815-30032009></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=640262815-30032009></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Joel
Davidson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 30, 2009 10:50 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
RE-wrenches<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] Inverters and their
Manufacturers<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Not buying equipment that does not work. Excuse
my sarcasm, but what a concept. </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>How about not
pushing manufacturers to release their products
prematurely? No one on this list would ever do that - more
sarcasm.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>But seriously, how about getting
in writing from the customer that he/she is getting the
opportunity to use a new inverter design with new
features</FONT> <FONT face=Arial size=2>but may also have some unknown
design issues that could, from time to time, require attention? In
conjunction with the customer warning, get the manufacturer's
cooperation to share call-back and repair or replacement costs. In
other words, involve your customers who want the latest-and-greatest gadget
in the beta-testing process.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Some of you heard this story before, but it is
worth repeating. Several years ago, I did a project with 250 Omnion
inverters. Omnion inverters were not very reliable but they were all we
had at the time. Infant mortality rate was over 6%. The manufacturer
blamed the installers and I blamed inadequate factory final
testing. Hans Myers, Omnion owner, was a good engineer and a reasonable guy.
He agreed to switch from 8 hours factory burn-in to 3 days burn-in before
shipping. I agreed to have installers follow a specific installation
procedure (send for copy off-list) and sign-off on their installation.
Infant mortality rate dropped to 0%. Lesson learned: work with your
suppliers to the benefit of your customers and your bottom
line.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Joel Davidson</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=tump@hughes.net href="mailto:tump@hughes.net">Tump</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">'RE-wrenches'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 30, 2009 4:34
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] Iverters
and their Manufacturers COMPENSATIONcheck list?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468075210-30032009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Perhaps this might be an additional reason to really work on the
installer's guild. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468075210-30032009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>If this trend continues (it hasn't changed since the beginning)
then we as a group might single out one Manu per month & NOT purchases
their product. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468075210-30032009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Two things might happen; </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468075210-30032009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>1)They might then have the time to actually build products that
have a bit better reliability .</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468075210-30032009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>2) If there is a problem WHEN we start to buy their product
the Manu's realize WE the installers, who SELL & INSTALL their
products + put food on their tables, have THE POWER to
affect their bottom line as they do w/ ours due to lost opportunity
costs & expenses incurred while replacing faulty
equipment.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468075210-30032009>
<DIV><SPAN class=468075210-30032009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Probably wouldn't take too long for one of the manufactures to
hear from their distributors that they are not selling
anything.</FONT></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468075210-30032009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468075210-30032009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468075210-30032009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>I will NOT say that all the problems are due to Manu's
problems.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468075210-30032009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>I know that I am guilty of not ALWAYS checking the basics &
blaming things that ARE NOT fault of the Manu's but loose wires that. "I
swear I checked or my wires never loosened up".</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV></SPAN><SPAN class=468075210-30032009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Many of us have offered suggestions regarding trouble shooting
issues in the past & Bill B has put together a "installers check
list''.How about it Bill?, knowing you, this is something you put together
back at PVusa oh those many years ago</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468075210-30032009>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=468075210-30032009>This</SPAN> could be the start of a way to
finally develop a industry wide & Manu. accepted check list to
properly assess an issue & then
the fix.</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=468075210-30032009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>How about is you manufactures, think this may be a way to
compensate the installers that DO have an issue w/ your products
& not their installations.</FONT></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <B>On Behalf Of
</B>Peter Parrish<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 27, 2009 5:59
PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'RE-wrenches'<BR><B>Subject:</B> [RE-wrenches] Iverters
and their Manufacturers<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">I don’t know about the rest of
this group, but we have noticed a steady increase in inverter warranty
calls. It used to be one a year; then things started to increase to the
point of at least one per-month. In the beginning it was the just the
GEC-1000s, then the SMA EEPROM debacle, followed by the Fronius IG
firmware problem, followed by the Xantrex GT “controlled flight into
terrain”. Now both Outback systems we have installed recently have gone
down (#@!?*). We are finding that most manufacturers are essentially
indifferent to installers who are an integral part of their warranty
obligation and are doing a poor job of supporting installers for a
variety of reasons, to wit:</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">(1)<FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=1><SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">Outback will not reimburse installers period. Not
for anything that they do. They require that equipment be removed and
sent to WA for repair or replacement, or will ship replacement parts
when the problem is obvious, but that’s it. We have had one repair last
month and are facing a second in April. We paid extra for the CEC-grade
warranty, and I expected more. Based on this experience, I will not
recommend or sell Outback equipment, until this policy
changes.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">(2)<FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=1><SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">Xantrex lost a returned GT inverter! They began
dunning us for it. We had the RMA on file but didn’t bother to write
down the tracking number from the Xantrex-generated UPS label (what am I
going to do with an inverter that won’t invert?). So not only will they
not process our request for reimbursement, they “want their inverter
back”.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">(3)<FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=1><SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">SMA didn’t want to honor payment on a service call
for an EEPROM swap out, even though I had an email from one of their
techies promising just that. After I produced the smoking gun, they
pointed out that we were about six weeks late in sending in the
reimbursement paperwork – they weren’t going to pay us. They’ve taken a
legally defensible position, but it makes for terrible public
relations.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">(4)<FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=1><SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">I thought Fronius might the only cowboy wearing a
white hat, but no. They want us to wait a month before reimbursing not
us but our distributor who only had the misfortune of selling us bad
merchandise. How we manage (and when) to get reimbursed from our
distributor, only time will tell, but I bet they won’t cut us a
check.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">But I am saving my best story for
last…</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in; TEXT-INDENT: -0.25in"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">(5)<FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=1><SPAN style="FONT: 7pt 'Times New Roman'">
</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">Xantrex II: we had a terrible time getting an
XW6048 to work properly (the details are unimportant, except to say the
design was spot on). I made six service calls after installing it last
Summer. I did a firmware upgrade, tightened even terminal and wiggled
every wire I could. I checked the module connections and the PV combiner
box. We programmed and reprogrammed every possible system parameter, to
no avail. After about 4 months (5?), I refused to make any more service
calls without a Xantrex technician at my side, and the customer
threatened to see an attorney. Xantrex eventually sent a technician down
to Los Angeles and administered another firmware upgrade and the system
settled down. Do you think they are willing to pay for any of our
post-install service calls? </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">I don’t switch vendors very often
or without good reason, but I don’t expect to sell another Outback based
system, nor do I expect to sell another GT. I am trying to convince my
salesmen to sell the Sunny Island system over the Xantrex XW product
(for a number of reasons) even though it is a more expensive
proposition. </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Is the following too much to ask
for? </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">- Superior, real-time technical
support in the field, including generation of an RMA on the
spot</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">- Replacement equipment promptly
shipped with prepaid shipping labels for the return of the defective
item.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">- Receipt of defective equipment
by the manufacturer, triggers installer payment without the requirement
of submitting a separate invoice.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">- Direct payment to company
servicing the equipment, within 30 days of the
service.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">I am not aware of a single Company
out there which meets the above four criteria, but I haven’t looked
closely at PVP or some of the others. All other things being equal, I
would really like to get behind a manufacturer of quality inverters who
also treats installers as partners in the warranty department, and be
able to extol their virtues to customers. In the next breath, I will
patiently explain to the prospective customer the hazards of purchasing
an inverter from a Company that does not have a sound and equitable
warranty policy.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">Any thoughts? And let’s remember,
at least on this list, they are all listening…</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black">- Peter</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Peter T.
Parrish, Ph.D., President<BR>California Solar Engineering, Inc.<BR>820
Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065<BR>Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile
323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885<BR>CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert.
031806-26<BR>peter.parrish@calsolareng.com</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial
color=blue size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>List sponsored
by Home Power magazine<BR><BR>List Address:
RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<BR><BR>Options &
settings:<BR>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org<BR><BR>List-Archive:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org<BR><BR>List
rules & etiquette:<BR>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<BR><BR>Check
out participant
bios:<BR>www.members.re-wrenches.org<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>List sponsored by
Home Power magazine<BR><BR>List Address:
RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<BR><BR>Options &
settings:<BR>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org<BR><BR>List-Archive:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org<BR><BR>List
rules & etiquette:<BR>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<BR><BR>Check out
participant
bios:<BR>www.members.re-wrenches.org<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>