<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Peter,<div><br></div><div>We have had 5 defective Outback FM80's in three weeks. One DOA was sent to replace one with no backlight which was to replace one that was programmed as an FM60 out of the box! (Check your 80's out there to make sure they come up as 80's) The service rep volunteered "I need to get you some money" meaning for all my wasted time. Not sure if I will see it but I feel your pain. Generally OB has been reliable for us in the past so I'm not sure what is happening. Last year we got a check right away for Xantrex for a GT failure but when a Fronius quit, the credit was sent to my distributor and applied to my next purchase.</div><div><br></div><div>Larry Crutcher</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Mar 27, 2009, at 2:58 PM, Peter Parrish wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Lucida Sans'; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="blue" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div class="Section1"><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">I don’t know about the rest of this group, but we have noticed a steady increase in inverter warranty calls. It used to be one a year; then things started to increase to the point of at least one per-month. In the beginning it was the just the GEC-1000s, then the SMA EEPROM debacle, followed by the Fronius IG firmware problem, followed by the Xantrex GT “controlled flight into terrain”. Now both Outback systems we have installed recently have gone down (#@!?*). We are finding that most manufacturers are essentially indifferent to installers who are an integral part of their warranty obligation and are doing a poor job of supporting installers for a variety of reasons, to wit:</span></font></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; "> </span></font></p><div style="text-indent: -0.25in; margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">(1)<font size="1" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font: normal normal normal 7pt/normal 'Times New Roman'; "> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></font></span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: black; ">Outback will not reimburse installers period. Not for anything that they do. They require that equipment be removed and sent to WA for repair or replacement, or will ship replacement parts when the problem is obvious, but that’s it. We have had one repair last month and are facing a second in April. We paid extra for the CEC-grade warranty, and I expected more. Based on this experience, I will not recommend or sell Outback equipment, until this policy changes.</span></font></div><div style="text-indent: -0.25in; margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">(2)<font size="1" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font: normal normal normal 7pt/normal 'Times New Roman'; "> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></font></span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: black; ">Xantrex lost a returned GT inverter! They began dunning us for it. We had the RMA on file but didn’t bother to write down the tracking number from the Xantrex-generated UPS label (what am I going to do with an inverter that won’t invert?). So not only will they not process our request for reimbursement, they “want their inverter back”.</span></font></div><div style="text-indent: -0.25in; margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">(3)<font size="1" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font: normal normal normal 7pt/normal 'Times New Roman'; "> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></font></span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: black; ">SMA didn’t want to honor payment on a service call for an EEPROM swap out, even though I had an email from one of their techies promising just that. After I produced the smoking gun, they pointed out that we were about six weeks late in sending in the reimbursement paperwork – they weren’t going to pay us. They’ve taken a legally defensible position, but it makes for terrible public relations.</span></font></div><div style="text-indent: -0.25in; margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">(4)<font size="1" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font: normal normal normal 7pt/normal 'Times New Roman'; "> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></font></span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: black; ">I thought Fronius might the only cowboy wearing a white hat, but no. They want us to wait a month before reimbursing not us but our distributor who only had the misfortune of selling us bad merchandise. How we manage (and when) to get reimbursed from our distributor, only time will tell, but I bet they won’t cut us a check.</span></font></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">But I am saving my best story for last…</span></font></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; "> </span></font></p><div style="text-indent: -0.25in; margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">(5)<font size="1" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font: normal normal normal 7pt/normal 'Times New Roman'; "> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></font></span></font><font color="black"><span style="color: black; ">Xantrex II: we had a terrible time getting an XW6048 to work properly (the details are unimportant, except to say the design was spot on). I made six service calls after installing it last Summer. I did a firmware upgrade, tightened even terminal and wiggled every wire I could. I checked the module connections and the PV combiner box. We programmed and reprogrammed every possible system parameter, to no avail. After about 4 months (5?), I refused to make any more service calls without a Xantrex technician at my side, and the customer threatened to see an attorney. Xantrex eventually sent a technician down to Los Angeles and administered another firmware upgrade and the system settled down. Do you think they are willing to pay for any of our post-install service calls?</span></font></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">I don’t switch vendors very often or without good reason, but I don’t expect to sell another Outback based system, nor do I expect to sell another GT. I am trying to convince my salesmen to sell the Sunny Island system over the Xantrex XW product (for a number of reasons) even though it is a more expensive proposition.</span></font></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">Is the following too much to ask for?</span></font></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">- Superior, real-time technical support in the field, including generation of an RMA on the spot</span></font></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">- Replacement equipment promptly shipped with prepaid shipping labels for the return of the defective item.</span></font></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">- Receipt of defective equipment by the manufacturer, triggers installer payment without the requirement of submitting a separate invoice.</span></font></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">- Direct payment to company servicing the equipment, within 30 days of the service.</span></font></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">I am not aware of a single Company out there which meets the above four criteria, but I haven’t looked closely at PVP or some of the others. All other things being equal, I would really like to get behind a manufacturer of quality inverters who also treats installers as partners in the warranty department, and be able to extol their virtues to customers. In the next breath, I will patiently explain to the prospective customer the hazards of purchasing an inverter from a Company that does not have a sound and equitable warranty policy.</span></font></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">Any thoughts? And let’s remember, at least on this list, they are all listening…</span></font></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; "> </span></font></p><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black; ">- Peter</span></font></div><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="2" color="navy" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President<br>California Solar Engineering, Inc.<br>820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065<br>Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885<br>CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26<br><a href="mailto:peter.parrish@calsolareng.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">peter.parrish@calsolareng.com</a></span></font><font size="2" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: blue; "></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; "> </span></font></p></div>_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br><br>List Address:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Options & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out participant bios:<br><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br></div></span></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>