<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<STYLE type=text/css>P {
MARGIN: 0px
}
</STYLE>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1619" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=744120921-12022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Very interesting....</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=744120921-12022009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=744120921-12022009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>So, is
there now an actual prevailing wage scale for PV Installer? Or do we
have to wait till 2010?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=744120921-12022009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=744120921-12022009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Here
in Hawai'i, there are five categories under the Electrician classification for
the state's prevailing wage scales for the trades. The lowest cost
category of the five is "Ground Man" at ~ $47/hour, including hourly rate plus
bennies. I've developed a good rapport with the local IBEW here and have,
I believe, got them to agree (pending the adoption at some point in the future
of a PV Installer classification) to treat module schlepping and mounting (i.e.,
mechanical work) as tasks performed by the Ground Man.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=744120921-12022009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=744120921-12022009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>marco</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=744120921-12022009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>ProVision</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman"><BR>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman">
<P>Wow! Matt - you are as generous with your epertise as your are
expert. Thank you much... </P>
<P> </P>
<P>Your summary is right on track with our experience (although I was nopt aware
of how federal things differed from PA and OH rules).</P>
<P> </P>
<P>GOOD NEWS (I think). the 2010 SOC will include a new classification
#47-2231 "Solar Photovoltaic Installers". how this will affect us is unknown -
input anyone? it is the 2010 document after all.</P>
<P> </P>
<P>Here is a link to the Jan 21, 2009 federal register - Actual federal register
document. Page 3920 lists the changes- (use adobe "search" funtion
for all solar references!)</P>
<P><A href="http://www.bls.gov/soc/soc2010final.pdf"
target=_blank>http://www.bls.gov/soc/soc2010final.pdf</A></P>
<P><BR>> I have a couple reference "rulings" from CA and FL that pretty much
sum up what you lay out below. Should help.<BR>> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV>For a brighter energy future,<BR>> Geoff Greenfield<BR>> Founder and
President<BR>> <FONT size=4><STRONG>Third Sun Solar & Wind Power
Ltd.<BR>> </STRONG></FONT>340 West State Street, Unit 25<BR>> Athens, OH
45701<BR>> 740.597.3111 Fax 740.597.1548<BR>>
www.Third-Sun.com<BR>> <EM><FONT size=4>Clean Energy - Expertly
Installed<BR>> </FONT></EM><BR>> </DIV></DIV><BR>> ----- "Matt
Lafferty" <gilligan06@gmail.com> wrote: <BR>> >
<STYLE>P {
MARGIN: 0px
}
</STYLE>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left>> > <SPAN class=968014115-12022009><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Hi Geoff,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left>> > <SPAN class=968014115-12022009><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left>> > <SPAN class=968014115-12022009><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Ain't rebates great! They sure go a long way
toward "keeping solar affordable"... </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left>> > <SPAN class=968014115-12022009><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=968014115-12022009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left>> > <SPAN class=968014115-12022009><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Generally speaking, Prev Wage has several
characteristics, not all of which are "hourly wage". </FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=968014115-12022009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>In CA there are
wage components like Health & Welfare, Vacation, Training, Hourly Wage, Per
Diem... Maybe something else in there too. <EM>(These are separate from and do
not include Unemployment, Worker's Comp and standard payroll deductions &
employer contributions like FICA, State Income Tax,
SSI)</EM></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left>> > <SPAN class=968014115-12022009><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left>> > <SPAN class=968014115-12022009><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>There is often, but not always, a
"Certified Payroll" requirement as well. Each component of the "Wage" as well as
deductions and employer contributions </FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=968014115-12022009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>must be itemized
and identified on the "Certified Payroll" report. The wage components are
determined by the task being performed, which should fall under a corresponing
Classification. <EM>(Similar to the Rigger / Electrician classifications you
described)</EM> In general, a Certified Payroll report must be prepared by
either a 3rd Party <EM>(Payroll service, CPA, etc.)</EM> or can be generated by
a Certified and Audited Accounting Program. QuickBooks ain't that. The agency
requiring the Certified Payroll is the one who determines what form of Certified
Payroll is acceptable and who can provide it. <EM>(In your case it sounds
like it's gonna be the grant administrator).</EM></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left>> > <SPAN class=968014115-12022009><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left>> > <SPAN class=968014115-12022009><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>If you are <STRONG><U>not</U></STRONG> working
on a Fed project, your state administers the Classification definitions and
other requirements under a Labor or Employment Commission / Department. There
may also be section of a Government code/statute that applies. In general, the
agency administering the program/contract/grant has the authority to accept or
reject the classification submitted by the employer <EM>(contractor).</EM> It is
common for these agencies to suffer from HUA syndrome and not really have it
together... HUA in the public sector is caused by many things, but a
common symptom preceding a full breakout is FBIC <EM>(Fat Butt In Chair)</EM>
syndrome. HUA in the private sector is granted by business schools in the form
of an MBA. If there is a corresponding Fed Classification Code for the
craft/task/trade, then they normally rubber stamp your paperwork if you use
that.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left>> > <SPAN class=968014115-12022009><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left>> > <SPAN class=968014115-12022009><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Since there isn't a "Solar Panel Installer"
or "PV Technician" Classification Code, <EM>(biting my tongue really
hard here..... ) </EM>you're gonna have to use whatever existing classifications
apply and/or the grant administrator will accept. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=968014115-12022009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Laborer, roofer,
and electrician <EM>(inside wireman)</EM> are common in CA. Payroll gets really
burdensome if you have one guy doing all the above and you want to
classify & pay according to the separate classifications. Be careful
how you set yourself up here... If you elect to "multi-classify",
y</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=968014115-12022009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>our Worker's Comp <EM>(and maybe liability)</EM> will end up being
affected. It may not result in you owing more money, but it will end up causing
a paperwork and administrative headache.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left>> > <SPAN class=968014115-12022009><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left>> > <SPAN class=968014115-12022009><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>It sounds to me like you already multi-classify,
and it sounds like you're using responsible classifications <EM>(The actual name
of the classification varies by state)</EM>. As long as these are acceptable
classifications to the grant administrator, you should be way ahead of the
curve. I recommend submitting the associated craft descriptions <EM>(task
descriptions & working conditions, often a copy of a collective
bargaining agreement)</EM> and the associated wage breakout to the grant
administrator and requesting a formal opinion. In writing this
time!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left>> > <SPAN class=968014115-12022009><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left>> > <SPAN class=968014115-12022009><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>They may or may not have this figured
out yet. I do know that the <STRONG>IBEW</STRONG> had a <STRONG>very
bad</STRONG> case of <STRONG>heartburn</STRONG> over Ohio's grant program, so
the fallout from that might have resulted in an unbalanced or skewed program.
</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=968014115-12022009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Not to be a conspiracist, but it wouldn't surprise me if non-IBEW
applications got lost &/or delayed at a higher rate than IBEW applications.
Fly-on-the-wall curiosity...</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left>> > <SPAN class=968014115-12022009><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=968014115-12022009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left>> > <SPAN class=968014115-12022009></SPAN><SPAN
class=968014115-12022009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>If they
haven't gotten it figured out and well-underway yet, your mission will be
to have them accept your current practice.</FONT> <FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Somewhere back in time you came up with Laborer / Stager /
Electrician / Steel Erector and an associated wage and classification
description... </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<OL dir=ltr>
<LI>
<DIV align=left>> > <SPAN class=968014115-12022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Go find that paperwork / source. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<LI>
<DIV align=left>> > <SPAN class=968014115-12022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Make sure you have and are in compliance with the most
current version.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<LI>
<DIV align=left>> > <SPAN class=968014115-12022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Adjust your practice as required by #2
above.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<LI>
<DIV align=left>> > <SPAN class=968014115-12022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Organize and compile the documents by
classification.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<LI>
<DIV align=left>> > <SPAN class=968014115-12022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Submit your collection to the grant
administrator with a cover letter requesting an opinon. Express your
interest in helping to expedite this. Be sure to include a
note describing how many lost/deferred manhours of work are
incurred by your employees with every hour you have to wait for an
opinion... Ohio jobs.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<LI>
<DIV align=left>> > <SPAN class=968014115-12022009></SPAN><SPAN
class=968014115-12022009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Follow up with
a phone call to make sure they received your submittal.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<LI>
<DIV align=left>> > <SPAN class=968014115-12022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Get the names, phone numbers, email addresses, and titles
of everybody who will be involved in review & rendering of the opinion.
Get the same info on their supervisors just for a little
insurance.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<LI>
<DIV align=left>> > <SPAN class=968014115-12022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Request a hard date for when you can expect an
answer.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<LI>
<DIV align=left>> > <SPAN class=968014115-12022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Contact up the food chain and be a helpful pest. You
don't want this to linger and you don't want to be on the bottom of the
pile.</FONT></SPAN></DIV></LI></OL>
<DIV dir=ltr>> > <SPAN class=968014115-12022009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Good luck!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left>> > </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left>> > <EM><FONT face="Monotype Corsiva"
size=4><STRONG>Matt Lafferty</STRONG></FONT></EM></DIV>
<DIV align=left>> > <FONT face=Arial size=2><A
href="mailto:gilligan06@gmail.com"
target=_blank>gilligan06@gmail.com</A></FONT></DIV><BR>> >
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>> >
<HR>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Geoff
Greenfield<BR>> > <B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 12, 2009 7:07 AM<BR>>
> <B>To:</B> RE-wrenches<BR>> > <B>Subject:</B> [RE-wrenches] HELP!
prevailing wage classification?<BR>> > </FONT><BR>> > </DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman">>
>
<P>Greetings fellow wrenches!</P>
<P><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </P>
<P>I am certain (and hopeful) that some of you folks have already been down this
road, and can share some advice (and hopefully documents or references)
regarding this issue. I have no problem with unions, (They
"brought us the weekend", have done a lot to remedy exploitation and unsafe
conditions etc), but we are an "open shop" in a small family owned company where
we have great relations with our well paid employees. </P>
<P> </P>
<P>Our meager grant program slipped some fine print into the documents implying
that any projects receiving funding (even residential!?) are subject to
prevailing wages etc. It seems that politics and influence has been
working behind the scenes, and now we need to figure out how to react.</P>
<P> </P>
<P>We have done plenty of public work and regularly are on PW jobs... Our
inquiry into "what class is solar" led to the response (that we unfortunately
dont have in writing) to use the classification closest to the task and pay at
that level. We often use labor rates for staging and mechanical assembly,
electrical rates for wiring and steel erector rates for wind towers etc...
It was explained to me that "a Rigger would deliver, set and install a big air
handler and an electrician would wire it up".</P>
<P><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </P>
<P>SO - the "HELP" part-</P>
<P> </P>
<P>can any of you point me toward a ruling or interpretation that helps us
defend our practice, or give guidance on the subject?</P>
<P> </P>
<P>Thanks in advance! Lets keep solar affordable and keep small shop
wrenches on the rooftops!<BR>> > </P>
<DIV>
<DIV>For a brighter energy future,<BR>> > Geoff Greenfield<BR>> >
<EM><FONT size=4>Clean Energy - Expertly Installed<BR>> >
</FONT></EM><BR>> > </DIV></DIV></DIV><BR>> >
_______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power
magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out
participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org </DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>