<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16788" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Hi Jim and anybody else who still thinks about doing direct
penetration mounting on comp roofs,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I'm in the same camp as William. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=212223417-23012009><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>How many lawyers
did you say there were in Texas? Isn't that a "right to sue" state?
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV></FONT></SPAN>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=212223417-23012009><FONT color=#0000ff>Please don't do silly modified
hanger bolts with a dinky washer and a dab o' goo... AKA <EM>"Bozo
Bolts".</EM> </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT color=#0000ff>If
you use them, then you only encourage more Bozos to use them, which only
encourages more Bozos to make and market them which eventually leads to a Solar
Bozo Association and an annual Bozo Bolt Convention and Bozo Bolt Spam...
Geez! Uggh! Yech!</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Get your attachments right. You should consider them to be
the foundation for your roof-mounted rack. Getting them right includes
structural and waterproofing. The right solution will be different for different
applications. If you are going to install conventional racking on
a comp-shingle or other roof system that relies on slope and overlapped
courses as the roof covering, you really have to use a flashed mounting system
these days. There are plenty out there to choose from now.
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=212223417-23012009><FONT color=#0000ff>The real time in installing any
rafter attached mount is locating and hitting the rafter in the center
<STRONG><EM><U>without compromising the primary roof covering</U></EM></STRONG>.
Doesn't matter if you're using a flashed or dingbat mounting. On comp, I found
that flashing-based standoffs only took about 2 minutes longer to
install than L-feet on average, including carrying them to the roof,
etc. <EM>Hint: Use a hook-blade in your utility knife for roofing
operations. </EM>I will say that, in drier climates, I am not nearly as
apprehensive of otherwise "well-installed" L-feet as I am that Bozo Bolt you
sent a picture of. <SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT color=#0000ff>I used to
rely on a combination of skill, procedure, and quality sealants when I used
L-feet and other unflashed mountings. </FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=212223417-23012009><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=212223417-23012009><FONT color=#0000ff>Never really had any serious
problems <EM>(that I know of)</EM>, but </FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=212223417-23012009><FONT color=#0000ff><U><STRONG>I recommend flashed
mounts all the way
no</STRONG>w</U>.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT><SPAN
class=212223417-23012009><FONT color=#0000ff></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>From a very basic perspective, think about this: There is
NOT a single roof-industry acceptable practice for non-flashed penetrations on
these roof coverings. This means that you are <U><STRONG>first</STRONG>
<STRONG>and last</STRONG></U> in the line of liability if you use these methods.
Any manufacturer or installer warranty that might have existed before you got
there are now null and void. You gotta ask yourself one thing, <EM>"Do I
feel lucky?"</EM> </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=212223417-23012009><FONT color=#0000ff>If you feel lucky, then I recommend
you do this: Go find a reputable roofer. One that has been in business a long
time, carries insurance, has the right contractor's license... Make sure he's
not about to retire, though. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT
color=#0000ff>Tell him you want a price for him to install those Bozo Bolts on a
brand new comp roof and warranty the installation for 10 years. See what he
tells you. IF he will even do it and gives you a price, you now have a
comparison price to apply toward a flashed mounting. It ain't just the price of
a bolt! </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2><STRONG><U>Roof Leaks</U></STRONG></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><STRONG><U><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></U></STRONG></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>One thing that I don't remember discussing on this list is
not necessarily widely understood. I think, in general, we all worry about
<EM>"the dreaded roof leak".</EM> There are fundamentally two basic categories
of roof leaks. The ones you see on the ceiling right away and the ones you
don't.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=212223417-23012009><FONT color=#0000ff>I think, in general, the vision of
a homeowner calling us up in the middle of a rainstorm explaining that their
ceiling just fell on top of their Thanksgiving dinner is the one we dread the
most. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT color=#0000ff>While
this is not a happy scenario and causes some discomfort, it's something we can
get fixed and paid for in relatively short order. <EM>"Yes, ma'am. I'm terribly
sorry about your mother-in-law's nightmares. No ma'am, I've never eaten a
turkey with drywall stuffing..."</EM></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=212223417-23012009><FONT color=#0000ff>Compare this to what I call the
Stealthy Seeper. These are leaks that aren't readily apparent, generally
not high-volume/velocity, and can go undetected for very long periods of
time. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT color=#0000ff>I've
seen plenty of these and they range from mild to bankruptcy on the "what it
takes to fix it" scale. <SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT color=#0000ff>The
Stealthy Seeper is the most common cause of what we broadly call Dry
Rot. We've all seen it around bathrooms and windows. In
the old days, we used to open up the floor or wall, scrape the white
stuff off, splash some copper-green on it, and replace a piece of wood or
two if needed. Some "contractors" would just cover it up. Some still do all of
the above even though it is an illegal practice in many states now. As in
possible criminal charges,
illegal.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>When the Stealthy Seeper originates from the roof,
it is generally not discovered until one of three things
happens:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>1) Someone in the home (or business) is suffering
from asthmatic symptoms or mold allergies they didn't have
before;</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>2) Ceiling or roof begins sagging
noticeably;</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>3) Home inspector (or termite guy) discovers it
during a pre-sale bank inspection.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>While it's never a good time to have Dry Rot, certain
times and ways it is discovered are worse than others. Generally speaking, the
longer it goes on, the worse it gets. People tend to notice when the floor
around the commode starts feeling mushy, but they don't notice the white and
black stuff growing in their attic right away. If they don't find out about
it until somebody is sick for no apparent reason, then it's a problem that paint
and linoleum ain't gonna fix. If they don't find out about it until the ceiling
or roof is sagging, then there's a good chance those little spores have a really
good head start. If they don't find out about it until there's an inspector for
a potential buyer poking around, then it's gonna cost thousands and thousands of
dollars in repairs and lost property value... IF the potential buyer can even
execute financing after the inspection.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=212223417-23012009><FONT color=#0000ff>In many states, the disclosure laws
for sale of real-property now require disclosure of mold histories. A
growing number have reporting and handling requirements that make asbestos
look like candy. A growing number of mold strains are being classified as toxic
hazards. Last I knew, there were 18 of them on the EPA list. And, yes, toxic
hazard status means the guys in the white suits with breathing apparatus...
Buildings with tents over them are not just for termites
anymore! </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT
color=#0000ff>So, even if the home wasn't for sale when the Stealthy Seeper was
discovered, it is entirely possible that the financial impacts will continue
later, such as when they try to refinance or sell their home.
</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>If you are ever involved in a claim such as this, your
insurance company will do everything they can to permanently settle & close
the case so they don't have ongoing exposure. Then they will cancel your policy,
if they haven't already. Good luck getting another one once you make it onto
that list!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009></SPAN><FONT
face=Arial><FONT size=2><FONT color=#0000ff>T<SPAN class=212223417-23012009>he
disclosure laws are and have</SPAN><SPAN class=212223417-23012009> been
pushed by insurance companies, due to the SUPER-SIZED quantity and value of
moldy lawsuits. Water-incursion caused "construction defect" lawsuits are
so prolific <EM>(and profitable for some)</EM> that banks & insurance
companies will do anything they can to avoid them. A big part of the cost of
flood-damage reconstruction & insurance is to avoid mold claims down
the road. The biggest reason "new construction" liability insurance
for contractors is so expensive &/or unavailable is directly related to
this. I personally know two general contractors that quit doing everything
else except destructive investigations for these mold-seeking lawyers. They
both told me the same thing... <EM>"If I keep doing construction, I'm gonna end
up getting sued by one of these guys. They pay me a fortune to fly all over the
state with a digital camera, hammer, prybar, cordless sawzall, and a laptop. I
line up a local roofer or lather to temporarily cover up the holes I make with
felt or building paper. Then I write a report in the hotel or on the plane home,
and pick up a check when I walk in their office the next day. Sometimes I go
testify in court. I never make less than a grand a day plus expenses no matter
what I'm doing for them. </EM></SPAN></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=212223417-23012009><EM>Why would I want to bother with all the headaches
of regular contracting?"</EM> They both separately admitted that they will tear
apart any amount of a building they have to in order to find a black-mold
sample. They don't have to find "it all"... They just have to find the slightest
amount. I quit associating with them years ago on
principle.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=212223417-23012009><FONT color=#0000ff>I met a guy 3 years ago that
has a toxic-mold sniffing dog that makes him a small fortune by walking
around barking at walls. This guy doesn't own a hammer. He uses a digtal
camera and video camera. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT
color=#0000ff>He and his dog go sit in court and testify in these cases all the
time.</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT color=#0000ff> His
dog is a registered service animal, so she gets to go to concerts and nice
restaurants with him. I've thought about doing this myself. Not the barking
part. His work basically comes in two forms... Preventative and
remediative. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT
color=#0000ff>Banks hire him prior to approving financing & refinancing,
generally on larger developments such as subdivisions or apartments. Including
new construction! </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT
color=#0000ff>Lawyers & insurance companies hire him when there's a claim.
He doesn't care which "side" he works for, frankly. His
reasoning? <EM>"It doesn't matter. This isn't a moral issue and my dog
doesn't care either way. She just alerts if there is toxic mold and doesn't
alert if there isn't. It's just the facts</EM>." Here's an ironic thing to think
about: His dog goes through more continuing education than NABCEP requires.
Whenever there is a new strain identified, it's "back to school for poochie".
</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>I'm not going to get into details of some of the "water
incursion" cases I have direct and/or 2nd hand knowledge of for a lot of
reasons. Certainly not in this forum. I will say that, fortunately, only a
couple of these cases "appear" that solar might be a contributing factor at this
time.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009></SPAN><SPAN
class=212223417-23012009></SPAN><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT color=#0000ff>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=212223417-23012009><FONT color=#0000ff>My reason for going into all this?
Simple. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=212223417-23012009><FONT color=#0000ff>The fact that the question of
<EM>"to flash or not to flash" </EM>is coming up in this day and
age tells me that it's time to have a serious discussion about risks
associated with roof leaks. I don't want to be alarmist by any means. Just
sharing some insights into some of the very real factors that affect every one
of us and we might not even realize it. It is directly related to the work we
do, the choices we make in how we do that work, and the ramifications associated
with those choices. I don't want to hear horror stories about things that could
and should have been avoided. I think we have better choices available in
products and methods now, as well as more comprehensive knowledge and
understanding of some of the things that were in the "gray areas" before.
</FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=212223417-23012009><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>The bottom line is this: When it comes to commercial
activity, such as installing solar systems on roofs for money, there is a very
important formula to remember:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial><FONT
size=2> <EM><FONT color=#0000ff>N = $$$, where "N" is
"negligence".</FONT></EM></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Everybody is looking for the "N-Guy". Don't be that
guy! One way to avoid it completely is to apply the best or "approved" practices
of the most applicable industry. In the case of waterproofing a roof attachment
point on a roof, that would be the roofing industry. By following their
practices, you might have a leak, but the likelihood will be WAAAAY less to
begin with and you won't be the "N-Guy". </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>This isn't a moral judgement, it's a business judgement.
Having this understanding should be the best salestool you can use to explain
the differences between your proposal and BozoBolt! In my experience, the
customer that "doesn't get it" or "still wants something for nothing" is not my
customer. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=212223417-23012009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Prayer alone won't stop roof leaks!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV align=left><EM><FONT face=Arial size=2><STRONG>Matt
Lafferty</STRONG></FONT></EM></DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial
size=2>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Wrenches</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I know this issue has been pretty well hashed over
on this site but I see a trend that I'm not sure how to relate to. The
number of roof mounted PV structure mfgrs is on the rise and many are migrating
to the US market from elsewhere. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The trend now seems to be to drill thru the
3-tab shingles, tiles etc and into a rafter. Then drive home a threaded lag
bolt with a patch of sealant on the exposed surface and covered by a large flat
metal washer. Of course most all the mfgrs will offer an optional flashed
version of attachment. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>So has the technology of sealants improved to a
point that only a dollop is needed or is this just an adaptation of a European
product coming here with hopes that it will work in this market as
well as it does there. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>And how much of new products is
simply cutting costs by reducing the amount of materials needed.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks as always</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Jim Duncan<BR> </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>