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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The Outbacks will definitely work.
We recently completed and Fronius AC coupled system (ran DC on the home run)
and back feeding the Outback quad stack. We ran short on relays, so we
used a Morningstar Relay Driver which was very simple to use and gave us 4
additional programmable relays. When the batteries fill up we have the
first relay kick on an electric space heater, a second one kicks on some ice
melters and the third cuts the power between the Fronius and the AC
panel. It tested out great and I am returning to commission it this
Thursday—so we shall see.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Our system is an off grid system though
and I am not sure how it would work with the grid without the GFX inverters.
We have the generator for back-up.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:navy'>Mark Dickson</span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:navy'>Oasis Montana
Inc.</span></font><font color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:navy'><a
href="http://www.oasismontana.com/" target="_blank"></a><a
href="http://www.oasismontana.com/" target="_blank"><font color="#497699"><span
style='color:#497699'>www.oasismontana.com</span></font></a></span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color="#497699" face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#497699'><a
href="http://www.grid-tie.com/" target="_blank">www.grid-tie.com</a></span></font><font
color=navy><span style='color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face="Comic Sans MS"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:navy'><a
href="http://www.pvsolarpumps.com/" target="_blank"></a><a
href="http://www.pvsolarpumps.com/" target="_blank"><font color="#497699"><span
style='color:#497699'>www.PVsolarpumps.com</span></font></a> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Steve Johnson<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, January 20, 2009
2:47 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Back
feeding battery inverter with grid-tieinverter</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>(This has already been said a few times but I am testing my new email
on the list and might as well put in my 2 cents. the first one bounced back so
I'm checking registration again) steve<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>Jeff,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>Why not send DC back to the garage and set your Sunny boy there.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>By sending 350VDC back you will have considerably less voltage drop to
deal with than 240 VAC. There is no charge controller as it is AC
coupled.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>I know the old SW4024 takes AC both ways on the AC in.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>I am doing a similar installation, AC coupled, but with outback VFX
instead of Xantrex.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>The outback will not backfeed the grid as it is an off grid
inverter. It has an internal transfer switch. The Aux relay has to
be connected to a relay to disconnect the sunny boy ac circuit to prevent of
overcharging the batteries as there is no charge controller. So yes the
sb charges the batteries and feeds the subpanel both.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>When the grid fails the sunny boy disconnects. After 5 minutes it
will see the ac from the outback battery backup and reconnect (thru the
emergency panel). Outback has an ac coupling paper on their
website. I am not familiar with the new xantrex's.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>Steve<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>-----Original Message-----<br>
From: re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Yago<br>
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 11:31 PM<br>
To: RE-wrenches<br>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Back feeding battery inverter with grid-tieinverter<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>I know this subject has come up before, but there have been several
different suggested ways to handle the problem and I was hoping for
easiest. We install lots of both on grid and off grid systems.
However, we have a client that will require a ground mounted array much futher
away from the inverter and batteries in the garage than we normally would want
to do since the voltage drop for this long distance would be excessive at low
voltage even with large cables. We have decided to locate a weather-proof
sunnyboy grid-tie inverter at the array, and supply 120/240 volts to the
critical loads sub-panel which is supplied by a Xanrex XW inverter and battery
bank in the garage. I realize there are several design issues here when the
grid is down, since we want the grid-tie inverter to remain on but be blocked
from the grid by the Xantrex inverter. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>The question is, what is the best way to keep a load on the sunnyboy
since it will not be grid connected during an outage. Also, is there a
best way to feed the output from the Sunnyboy to the Xantrex that does not just
power the sub-panel loads during an outage, but also will re-charge the battery
bank through the Xanrex?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>If you back-feed the Xanrex from the sub-panel it is normally supplying
with output from the Sunnyboy, will the Xanrex see this input and think the
grid is up and be able to re-charge the battery bank?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>Will we need any separate transfer switches or power relays?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoPlainText><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'>Jeff Yago<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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