<br>Thanks Allan! I will poke around that website and maybe bother Frank if I get desperate.<br><br>I have been in discussion with this utility about the necessity (or lack thereof) of this switch. In fact I've sent them that very document as well as the PG&E explanation of why they do not require the switch (<font size="2" color="blue" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: blue; font-family: Arial;"><a title="http://www.pge.com/b2b/newgenerator/solarwindgenerators/disconnectswitches/" href="http://www.pge.com/b2b/newgenerator/solarwindgenerators/disconnectswitches/">http://www.pge.com/b2b/newgenerator/solarwindgenerators/disconnectswitches/</a>) </span></font>but to no avail. I must say, the engineer who seems to run the show over there is very committed and makes a cogent argument (see below). Like Brian, my understanding is that these switches don't get used 99% of the time when linesmen are working during a power outage because either a) they pull meters or b) they just don't bother finding the solar homes in the first place - they just test their line voltages where they're working. That argument, however, holds no sway with this particular utility official.<br>
<br>Any other documentation out there of utilities that allow a label, map or plaque describing the location of a remote External Disconnect Switch? I just can't stand the idea of a crew spending a whole day or maybe more just moving this freaking disconnect...<br>
<br><br><br><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#993366" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(153, 51, 102); font-family: Arial;">Andrew;</span></font></p>
<font color="#993366"><font size="2"><font face="Arial"><br></font></font></font>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#993366" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(153, 51, 102); font-family: Arial;">Thank you for your
e-mail. I hope you find photovoltaic installations interesting and exciting.
It is a great industry and great way to help with renewable energy. The
requirement for the disconnecting means is a safety requirement and should not
create any additional burden since even a residential water heater is required
to have disconnecting means. The requirement for the readily accessible
disconnecting means <u>is</u> a requirement of the NEC and <u>is</u> intended to
comply with the OSHA electric utility work practice requirement in 1910.269 to
be able to isolate a source of energy. The only difference between this
disconnecting means and a water heater is that the location must be readily
accessible to those "workers" who need to use it. The ability to isolate and
"lockout / tagout" a source of energy is a basic safety philosophy of OSHA
1910.147 for workers. This basic philosophy is worked into Allegheny Power's
employees work practices as required by law. </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#993366" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(153, 51, 102); font-family: Arial;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#993366" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(153, 51, 102); font-family: Arial;">I appreciate your
discussion. I know this is controversial issue and one that has a lot of
discussion. I must say that I don't agree with the NREL report nor does the
majority of the electric utility industry agree with it. Also, when pressed,
Underwriters Laboratory does not agree with eliminating the disconnecting
means. Let me explain. The electric utility industry (not just Allegheny
Power) is planning on directly addressing the points made in this report. We
have also been in contact with representatives of PG&E to explain the
reasons for disconnecting means for interconnected generation. However,
electrical installations in California are covered by the California
Electrical Code enforced by California Building Standards rather than the
National Electrical Code. These requirements may be a little different, but are
typically based on the NEC. I also know that the PG&E "Codes and Standards"
guy recently retired and they may not realize they are not in compliance.
</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#993366" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(153, 51, 102); font-family: Arial;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#993366" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(153, 51, 102); font-family: Arial;">Did you know that
pulling an electric utility meter under load is unsafe for the worker and
further will not de-energize all services? Please do not encourage anyone to do
this practice. </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#993366" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(153, 51, 102); font-family: Arial;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#993366" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(153, 51, 102); font-family: Arial;">Did you know that
according to UL engineers (Timothy P. Zgonena and John R. Kovacik) that an
inverter tested/certified to UL-1741 as Utility Interactive (I.e. UL 1741
Listed), may not always cease to energize the utility supply wiring under all
failure modes/mechanisms? (Timothy P. Zgonena is the author of UL 1741 and made
this point to the representatives of the electrical industry during the
discussion regarding Article 690, 692, and Article 705 for the National
Electrical Code and interconnected generation.)</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#993366" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(153, 51, 102); font-family: Arial;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#993366" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(153, 51, 102); font-family: Arial;">Because UL1741
pre-certified inverters only have to cease to energize a de-energized line
rather than "automatically disconnect" this feature makes the requirement for a
readily accessible manual disconnecting means necessary because, UL cannot
guarantee that the inverter will always work in all situations. This is also a
provision of IEEE 1547 which is the parent standard for interconnection of
distributed generation. </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#993366" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(153, 51, 102); font-family: Arial;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#993366" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(153, 51, 102); font-family: Arial;">If everything worked
properly all of the time, the disconnecting means would not be required.
However, since no one can guarantee that everything will always work properly,
the disconnecting means is required. In the PG&E case, they have been lucky
that the equipment has worked as it was originally designed. After all, if we
never had short circuits and ground faults, fuses and circuit breakers would not
be needed either. </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#993366" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(153, 51, 102); font-family: Arial;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#993366" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(153, 51, 102); font-family: Arial;">Have a great day. I
hope this information is useful.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#993366" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(153, 51, 102); font-family: Arial;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#993366" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(153, 51, 102); font-family: Arial;">Tim</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" color="#993366" face="Arial"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(153, 51, 102); font-family: Arial;"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" color="black" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt; color: black;"> </span></font></p></div><br><br><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 2:02 AM, Allan Sindelar <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:allan@positiveenergysolar.com">allan@positiveenergysolar.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>
<div><span>Peter,</span></div>
<div><span>I'd like to take issue with one point you
make. The EDS is a utility requirement only, and is not required by Code. The
breaker (or if it's a line tap, the adjacent fused disconnect) serves the full
function of the Code-required disconnect and overcurrent protection. So keep the
AHJ out of this issue, as that only gives the utility a greater illusion of
legitimacy, and makes your own job harder. It seems to me that this is a utility
issue only, and should be treated as such.</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>Andrew,</span></div>
<div><span>PNM in New Mexico has required EDS's (here
they're called Customer Generation Disconnects, or CGDs), but they're optionally
exempt under 10kW per new state regs. They allow it to be located elsewhere if a
plaque and map are at the meter. Their website has changed re PV, and I can't
find a link to send you. Frank at PNM may be able to help, although he's very
busy these days: 505 362-7736.</span></div>
<div><span></span> </div>
<div><span>Your better approach is to defend the lack
of need for the EDS. The utility won't budge, but if they see it's
unnecessary, the location might then be flexible. See <a href="http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy08osti/42675.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy08osti/42675.pdf</a> for
an NREL report you can use.</span></div>
<div><span></span><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"></font></span></font> </div>
<div><font><span>Allan at Positive
Energy</span></font></div><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">
<div><font><span></span></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span> </span>-----Original Message-----<br><b>From:</b>
<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>ASAP
POWER! 2<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 13, 2009 1:34 PM<br><b>To:</b>
'RE-wrenches'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] signage for remote External
Disconnect Switches<br><br></font></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font size="2" color="#000080" face="Tahoma">Andrew, </font></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" align="left"><span><font size="2" color="#000080" face="Tahoma">Agree with purposes 1), 2). You'll have to
continue patiently educating both AHJ's and utilities meanwhile.
</font></span><span><font size="2" color="#000080" face="Tahoma">Most likely you would have to show the AHJ documentation of the utility's
allowed variance. Request a variance with a formal letter and fax it
to them. Show a complete site diagram showing a line of sight
from subpanel'd EDS location to the meter location if you can. If you
cannot, show on diagram distance and location of point to where you can show a
line of sight not through a structure. Let them know the diagram will be
an engraved or raised letter placard at proper letter size to be placed at
the EDS location.</font></span></div>
<div><font size="2" color="#000080" face="Tahoma"><span></span></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" color="#000080" face="Tahoma"><span>Peter
D.</span></font></div><br>
<div dir="ltr" align="left" lang="en-us">
<hr>
<font size="2" face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Andrew
Truitt<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 13, 2009 11:12 AM<br><b>To:</b>
RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] signage for remote External
Disconnect Switches<br></font><br></div>
<div></div><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br>I
have come to a conclusion: Utility companies serve two (2) purposes: 1)
To safely and profitably distribute electrical power and 2) To drive PV
integrators insane. <br><br>The particular utility of which I speak,
Allegheny Power, was responsible for convincing the Maryland PUC for requiring
External Disconnect Switches on PV installs if they are to be eligible for REC
generation. Now they have finally gotten around to inspecting a system
we installed a year ago where the EDS was located on the opposite side of the
house from the meter (we made our interconnection at a sub-panel) and they are
requiring us to move it back to the meter location (or install a 200A external
service disconnect).<br><br>Does anyone know of any documentation from a
utility or AHJ that accepts a weatherproof label (or plack) on the meter
indicating the location of the EDS when it is not convienient for the meter
and EDS to be co-located?<br><br><br>Andrew Truitt<br>Standard Solar
Inc.<br><font color="#888888"><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>"Don't get me wrong:
I love nuclear energy! It's just that I prefer fusion to fission. And it just
so happens that there's an enormous fusion reactor safely banked a few million
miles from us. It delivers more than we could ever use in just about 8
minutes. And it's wireless!"<br><br>~William
McDonough<br><br></font></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br><br></div></div></div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>"Don't get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It's just that I prefer fusion to fission. And it just so happens that there's an enormous fusion reactor safely banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could ever use in just about 8 minutes. And it's wireless!"<br>
<br>~William McDonough<br><br>