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<title>Re: [RE-wrenches] Skystream 3.7 experiences?</title>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:blue'>Hey Matt. There is much
interest in the “urban turbine” these days, in part because it has
a catchy ring to it. Proven has installed many urban turbines in the UK,
all on low towers or roof mounted and all have reported poor production by
comparison to the traditional tower top installation in the suburb or country
where the proper hub height can be obtained. AeroVironment, Inc. has an
interesting take on urban turbines with their “parapet wind”
installations. The theory is that the wind accelerates as it flows over
the parapet of a building, thereby offering a better end result for power production.
This sounds reasonable, but as in any wind turbine installation, what direction
the wind comes from and what obstructions are in that direction are still major
factors to capturing the resource. As many of us already know, wind
modeling is part historical data and part an educated best guesstimate.
Urban wind modeling has a different, and in my opinion higher, level of
difficulty. The historical data has yet to be compiled, which leaves us
with just a best guess, unless an anemometer is installed to capture that particular
site’s data. It is an interesting theory, but it still needs to be
proven. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:blue'>My take on the San Francisco urban
SkyStream is that they either got lucky with the location or there is a bit of
PR and embellishment at play. Do they have any wind instrumentation in place
to record the wind data? Is there a customer side meter installed to
verify kWh production and correlate that to their recorded wind data? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Constantia","serif";color:black'>Roger
Dixon<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-family:"Constantia","serif";
color:black'>Certified Wind Site Assessor<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Constantia","serif";color:black'>Skylands
Renewable Energy, LLC<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Constantia","serif";color:black'>908.337.2057
cell<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Constantia","serif";color:black'>908.730.6474
fax<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Constantia","serif";color:black'>roger.dixon@att.net<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:blue'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Matt
Tritt<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 23, 2008 9:18 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Skystream 3.7 experiences?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Roger, etc.,<br>
<br>
All reports that have come my way basically concur; with one interesting
exception - that being from a SkyStream owner (and "urban wind
dealer"). They are claiming about "500 kWh/per month" from their
machine, which is located smack-dab in the urban heart of San Francisco. This
is on a 45' tower, by the way, right next to a house. Since this reported
production rivals the best turbines in the same rotor size class in a really
great wind site, the report is either extremely misread, or this part of the
city has one hell of a wind regime! It is also interesting to note that they
won't sell any more SkyStreams after having "a negative experience"
with SWWP. <br>
<br>
Matt T<br>
<br>
roger dixon wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:blue'>I support
and second the thoughts and comments Roy has voiced, as the real world
experience does not yet marry up to the projections and subsequent client/owner
expectations. Without a customer production meter, owners are basically
happy with their units (they rotate so they make power </span><span
style='font-family:Wingdings;color:blue'>J</span><span style='color:blue'>).
With production meters you will find a different reaction. Reality sets
in with the numbers on those meters. I do not install ANY wind turbine
without a customer side, production meter and I monitor that with annual
inspections and maintenance. I am hopeful that refinement of the
Skystream turbine, electronics and software will prove to be fruitful and live
up to those projections and expectations. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:blue'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-family:"Constantia","serif"'>Roger
Dixon</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><i><span style='font-family:
"Constantia","serif"'>Certified Wind Site Assessor</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-family:"Constantia","serif"'>Skylands
Renewable Energy, LLC</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-family:"Constantia","serif"'>908.337.2057
cell</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-family:"Constantia","serif"'>908.730.6474
fax</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-family:"Constantia","serif"'><a
href="mailto:roger.dixon@att.net">roger.dixon@att.net</a></span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='color:blue'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> <a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Roy Butler<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 23, 2008 5:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Skystream 3.7 experiences?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'>Phil and all,<br>
<br>
The industry insiders have a great saying that sums this all up....<br>
<br>
Skystream owners without production meters love their turbines.<br>
Those with meters hate them.....<br>
<br>
Let's hope SWWP does what it must to turn this around and do what's right for <br>
the industry. Hey...I can dream can't I??<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre style='margin-left:1.0in'>Roy Butler<o:p></o:p></pre><pre
style='margin-left:1.0in'>NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer®<o:p></o:p></pre><pre
style='margin-left:1.0in'>NYSERDA eligible PV & wind installer <o:p></o:p></pre><pre
style='margin-left:1.0in'>Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC<o:p></o:p></pre><pre
style='margin-left:1.0in'>8902 Route 46<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:
1.0in'>Arkport, NY 14807<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:1.0in'>607-324-9747<o:p></o:p></pre><pre
style='margin-left:1.0in'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:1.0in'><a
href="http://www.four-winds-energy.com">www.four-winds-energy.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre
style='margin-left:1.0in'><a href="http://www.nationalsolarsupply.com">www.nationalsolarsupply.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre
style='margin-left:1.0in'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:1.0in'>Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, <o:p></o:p></pre><pre
style='margin-left:1.0in'>a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre
style='margin-left:1.0in'> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><br>
<br>
Phil Schneider wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:1.0in'><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Gill Sans"'>Our
experience with the Skystream here in Wyoming has been good so far. We
have installed 6, the oldest one being in operation for about 14 months.
One is part of a battery based grid-tie system, and operated well when
tested. One of the turbines is in world-class wind in Southeast Wyoming.
I just checked with the owner and it produced about 480 kWh in the last
month on a short tower (with a hundred miles of sagebrush to the windward side)
at almost 6000 ft elevation. Unfortunately this turbine doesn’t
have an anemometer/data logger, so we don’t know if it is performing as
expected. My guess is that it spends a lot of time self-regulating.<br>
<br>
One of the turbines was in the recent batch of recalls and was dealt with by a
SWWP-hired contractor. This involved a potential leak in a seal of the
electronics compartment in the nacelle (although for some reason they are
replacing the whole turbine). While reaching somebody at SWWP tech
support has been nearly impossible, this turbine swap was handled fairly
swiftly.<br>
<br>
>From the others’ experience, sounds like we should keep our fingers
crossed.<br>
<br>
P.<br>
</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><br>
</span><b><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Gill Sans"'>Phil Schneider</span></b><span
style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Gill Sans"'>, system engineer<br>
</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Gill Sans";color:#FF8000'>Creative
Energies<br>
</span><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Gill Sans"'><a
href="http://www.CreativeEnergies.biz">www.CreativeEnergies.biz</a><br>
307.332.3410 Lander, WY<br>
208.354.3001 Victor, ID<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style='margin-left:.5in'>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Gill Sans"'>
<hr size=3 width="95%" align=center>
</span></div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:1.0in'><b><span style='font-size:7.0pt;
font-family:"Gill Sans"'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:7.0pt;
font-family:"Gill Sans"'>Kurt Albershardt <a href="mailto:info@es-ee.com"><info@es-ee.com></a><br>
<b>Reply-To: </b>RE-wrenches <a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a><br>
<b>Date: </b>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 08:26:38 -0800<br>
<b>To: </b>RE-wrenches <a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [RE-wrenches] Skystream 3.7 experiences?<br>
<br>
</span><span style='font-size:5.5pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>--On Monday,
December 22, 2008 6:23 PM -0500 Roy Butler <a
href="mailto:roy@four-winds-energy.com"><roy@four-winds-energy.com></a>
wrote: > > In a nutshell.....this unit is not ready for prime time yet. Lots
of bugs and glitches. > Not to mention much lower than expected energy
production. --On Monday, December 22, 2008 5:13 PM -0700 Louis Woofenden <a
href="mailto:louis@woofenden.net"><louis@woofenden.net></a> wrote: >
> We've installed a couple of Skystream units here in southern Arizona. We
know the tilt-up tower works quite well--we've had to bring each unit down 2-3
times for various problems with electronics. Added to this was SWWP's extremely
poor customer service. They took several days to even call us back, didn't send
promised parts, etc. Of course, these two installation sites are one and two
hours from our shop. We had one customer who was just about ready to throw the
unit in the back of his truck, and drive it the five hours up to Flagstaff.
> > It looks slick, the installation was no problem, but if it doesn't
work reliably, none of that really matters, in my opinion. I was hoping SWWP
would get this one right, but I don't think it's there yet. Given the long and
well documented SWWP history, I was afraid of this. Has anyone successfully
coupled a Bergey Xl.1 to a grid-tie? Anything else to recommend in the
1-5 kW range? thanks... > Might have something to do with those little fence
posts they call towers ;-) > > And that Smart foundation only works on
towers 60' or less. > Too short for most sites and not a good height for
energy production anyway. > > Believe me.....most of us would love to see
plug and play/ modular tower > and turbine systems but there's no such beast
yet! > > Best advice......take a wait and see approach. > > Roy
Butler > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer® > NYSERDA eligible PV
& wind installer Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC > 8902 Route 46 >
Arkport, NY 14807 > 607-324-9747 > > <a
href="http://www.four-winds-energy.com">www.four-winds-energy.com</a> > <a
href="http://www.nationalsolarsupply.com">www.nationalsolarsupply.com</a> >
> Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large
number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. > > > > > Kurt
Albershardt wrote: >> Anyone have realworld experience with the SWWP
Skystream 3.7 they can >> share? >> >> The AnemErgonics
foundation kit looks fairly well thought out. >> >> >>
>> > > _______________________________________________ > List
sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: <a
href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
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> -- Kurt Albershardt Eastern Sierra Energy Engineering Reno, NV
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style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Check out participant bios:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in;
text-align:center'>
<hr size=4 width="90%" align=center>
</pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>No virus found in this incoming message.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in'>Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com">http://www.avg.com</a> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in'>Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.0/1862 - Release Date: 12/23/2008 12:08 PM<o:p></o:p></pre><pre
style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></pre></div>
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