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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I am pretty
sure that solder is forbidden in the NEC. For AC or DC. Our inspector pointed
that out once 13 years ago.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Thanks
-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Dana
Orzel<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Great
Solar Works, Inc<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>www.solarwork.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>E
- dana@solarwork.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>V
- 970.626.5253<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>F
- 970.626.4140<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>C
- 970.209.4076<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
lang=EN style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>“I'd
put my money on solar energy… I hope we don't have to wait 'til oil and
coal run out before we tackle that.”</span><span lang=EN
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
lang=EN style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>—Thomas
Edison, in conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone, March 1931</span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Joel
Davidson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:05 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Soldering electrical conductors<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Good wire splices and connections
require good mechanical connections first. Some people like to solder the wire
after they make the mechanical connection, but solder can hide a bad
mechanical connection and provide a place for corrosion to form.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Joel Davidson<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> The Office of Tom
Duffy <tom@thesolar.biz><br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 3, 2008 9:48:28 AM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Soldering electrical conductors</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>About 28 years ago I read a study,
by either Niehoff or Prestolite, on the pros and cons of soldering or crimping,
heavy duty starter cables, for over the road trucks. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>The finding was, that a properly
crimped lug made a solid (molecular) connection while solder did not make as
good a connection because solder was not as good a conductor as copper. They
concluded that the crimped connection carried more amperage and did so over the
long haul. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>We use an air over hydraulic
crimper on all our cables with a hydraulic gauge reading of 10,000 lbs PSI. I
have done a pull test with this connection by pulling a truck behind another with
this connection</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Tom Duffy</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>The Solar Biz</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><strong><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></strong><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>North
Texas Renewable Energy Inc<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 03, 2008 10:08 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE Wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Soldering electrical conductors</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Wrenches</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Over
the years I have heard almost nothing about soldering of electrical connections
in PV circuits, AC or DC. The only reference I recall is from the
recommendation that one should crimp AND solder larger compression fittings to
assure a permanent connection. There were references to factory made
battery cable crimps not holding after installation and during the final
"pull-test". </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I
can't find any reference to the practice in the NEC, either pro or con. It
seems that any technique so susceptible to poor results would be at least
addressed. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>The
reason I want to definitively address this practice, by the
Wrenches community, is this.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>A
group of PV industry specialists were invited to help develop a curriculum
for a state funded technical college with 4 separate campuses. The Waco
Campus, with the fuel cell and
wind degree programs, is now creating a solar
installer technician degree program. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>A
group of experts spent two days picking our brains
to help create an overview plus detailed duties, tasks and
the separate steps involved in the design/installation process.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>So
now that the initial draft is finished we are asked to critique it. One of
the "General Knowledge" items is <u>soldering techniques</u>. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I need
to mention that the degree will cover both PV and thermal installs. Of
course some soldering is necessary in the thermal installation process, less
since the introduction of compression connections, but I'm interested in
addressing the electrical side. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>If
any negative long-term effects from solder joints have been
discovered I would like to hear about them. If they seem serious enough, I
would consider recommending that the staff include a
clarification that electrical soldering should be avoided. If the long-term
effect is negligible, it is still possible to do an electrically poor job
even using top quality equipment. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I'll
defer to the collective knowledge of this organization.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Thanks
as always</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Jim
Duncan<br>
North Texas Renewable Energy Inc<br>
817.917.0527<br>
<a href="mailto:ntrei@earthlink.net" target="_blank">ntrei@earthlink.net</a><br>
<a href="http://www.ntrei.com/" target="_blank">www.ntrei.com</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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