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<DIV><SPAN class=671173002-02122008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Hey
Matt, put their address here, so we ALL can forward this message to the right
folks @ SMA!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Matt
Tritt<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 26, 2008 7:31 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
RE-wrenches<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] More on AC coupling - SI and
SB<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>Geoff,<BR><BR>SMA suggests using an OutBack Autoformer.
Yes, I know it sounds weird to suggest using a competitors product, but this
is not the only weirdness when using the 60 Hz SI system! They <I>also
</I>suggest using the Flexware DC breaker box, as there is really nothing they
make that accomplishes the same thing, at such a low cost. Low is subjective,
I suppose.<BR><BR>I asked a pair of the SMA engineers from Germany about the
possibility of coming out with a 240 60 Hz version (pleaded is more like it)
to help the long suffering American AE sector, and the answer was just what
has been suggested by our Scottish bretheren: If the market is large enough to
warrant the UL listing procedure, and if the market will bear a slightly
higher price tag, they will do it. I would recommned that each and every one
of us that would like to have the option of somehting as great as this system
has to offer, PLEASE email, phone and write to SMA Amerika (ho ho ho) to
express your wishes. It can't hurt!<BR><BR>Matt T<BR><BR>Geoff Greenfield
wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE
cite=mid15113924.1261121227713256910.JavaMail.root@zimbra4.mindcentric.com
type="cite">
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<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-FAMILY: Times New Roman">
<P>Matt-</P>
<P> </P>
<P>What is your prefered/recomended way to address the 240 VAC SB series (we
typically dont want to use a bunch of 700s or 1800s) and the 120 VAC SI
series? We used a pair of Outback PSX-240s but that was extra
work/cost. Other (larger) transformers? Torroid coil? Eaton? I'm
surprised SMA doesnt have a nice interface worked out for the North American
market...</P>
<P> </P>
<P>Also wrenches... if you go down this route, invest the time ahead of time
on learning/preping for the set up etc for SI in this application. It
is not out of the box ready to go, but involves a software upgrade, laptops
and the right patch cord (an issue if you are 5 hours away...).<BR><BR></P>
<DIV>For a brighter energy future,<BR><BR>Geoff Greenfield<BR>Founder and
CEO<BR><FONT size=4><STRONG>Third Sun Solar & Wind Power
Ltd.<BR></STRONG></FONT>340 West State Street, Unit 25<BR>Athens, OH
45701<BR><BR>740.597.3111 Fax 740.597.1548<BR><A
class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="http://www.Third-Sun.com">www.Third-Sun.com</A><BR><BR><EM><FONT
size=4>Clean Energy - Expertly
Installed<BR></FONT></EM><BR><BR><BR><BR></DIV><BR><BR>----- "Tump" <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:tump@hughes.net"><tump@hughes.net></A> wrote: <BR>>
<DIV><SPAN class=718182213-26112008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Matt, I have long been interested in installing the SMA SI & SBs
but I have a VERY tough time selling $9ks worth of inverters, just to get
things started.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=718182213-26112008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>In
the system below I would not of hesitated in installing the SMA SI & SB!
I too agree that w/this type of scenario described below, I would have
given quite a bit of thought to using the SMAs. Can't beat the battery
charging, no charge controllers & expandability.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=718182213-26112008></SPAN><SPAN
class=718182213-26112008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2> Please
if there is someone out there that has had experience w/ the SMA SI & SB
let us know if it is all that it is cracked up to be!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=718182213-26112008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>With passport in hand, I offer my help if someone out
there has a large system like this, that will be using the
SI & SB/WB type of set up.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=718182213-26112008><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>TUMP</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>> <FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR>> <B>From:</B> <A
class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</A>
[<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Matt Tritt<BR>> <B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November 25,
2008 9:21 PM<BR>> <B>To:</B> RE-wrenches<BR>> <B>Subject:</B> Re:
[RE-wrenches] More on AC coupling<BR>> </FONT></DIV>I am curious as to
why OutBacks were used for this system instead of using SunnyIslands and
SunnyBoys? From what I can tell about the SI system, virtually no aspect
of battery charging, auto gen-start/stop, and interactive inverter control
has been overlooked - or remains to be engineered in the field by the
installer. Because SunnyIslands have the ability to "talk" to Sunny (or
Windy)Boys, excess energy is taken care of by "integrated load shedding" -
no need for multiple relays, dumpoads and voltage sensors. :-) The only
limitation to these systems (and only in 60 Hz land) is a maximum of 20 kW
single, and 15 kW three phase per autonomous load. I really like the
flexibility of being able to connect all AC inputs on the same line, as
well as having the option to do direct battery charging from a DC source
(as long as you use a shunt to measure current).<BR>> I know this
doesn't answer your questions, but for similar applications in the future
it would be good to take a close look at the SunnyIsland system. They're
cool.<BR>> Matt T<BR>> Mark Dickson wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid1227629891_11368@gwa5>
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<DIV class=Section1>>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hello
Wrenches,</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">On the heels of
the previous thread:</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">We just got
finished installing a system that utilizes an Outback Quad stack and a
5.2kW array coupled to the AC panel via a Fronius IG5100--due to a long
home-run. The VFX’s are wired into the home in their traditional
manner, providing the “grid” for the Fronius. As the solar comes
in, excess power not used in the home back feeds the batteries through
the VFX’s. I have a series of relays operating dump loads and
finally a power cut-off for when the batteries reach critical
level. We installed the system yesterday and turned it on for a
test run (then back off to power it up in 2009 for the ITC’s)—it worked
great!</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I have a couple
questions for you all:</SPAN></FONT></P>
<UL style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in" type=disc>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: navy"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Seems how we
are back feeding the inverters and forfeiting their charge control,
where would you set the dump loads to kick on?</SPAN></FONT> <FONT
face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>
<UL style="MARGIN-TOP: 0in" type=circle>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: navy"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">For now I
have them set at: 1<SUP>st</SUP> load to kick on at float voltages,
2<SUP>nd</SUP> to kick on at bulk voltages and 3<SUP>rd</SUP> to
kick the solar power off at the EQ voltages. Does this make
sense? The bank is made up of Rolls 4ks-25ps
batteries.</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></LI></UL>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: navy"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Following a
recent discussion on the Wrenches list with a similar system: Do
I need to worry about back feeding the generator if it is runnin in
the morning when the sun comes up? Do I need a relay that will
shut it down when solar comes on line?</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face=Arial
size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT>
<LI class=MsoNormal style="COLOR: navy"><FONT face=Arial color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I plan on
setting the Absorb and Float set times to a miimum. Would you
recommend this?</SPAN></FONT> <FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></LI></UL>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks for your
input!</SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">Mark
Dickson</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Comic Sans MS'">Oasis
Montana Inc.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=navy><SPAN
style="COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV><PRE><HR width="90%" SIZE=4>
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