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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hi Geoff,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Nice heads up on the SI needing to be “set up” prior to commissioning.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>We are getting closer to a similar design ourselves. We have a
SB7000US being fed by 36 Sanyo Hit Power 200’s on the drawing board that we are
going to feed into a grid tie inverter system. Right now I am convinced that
the SI5048’s will need to be paired up in order to feed this amount of current
back through them to the grid if there aren’t any loads on in the residence,
unless someone can let me know that this is not the case. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I envision each SI requiring its own manual transfer switch
between it and the grid, feeding the dedicated loads AC subpanel in case we
need to pull it off the wall for servicing. Is this typical in your designs?
Rethinking this if one SI is down for repairs the entire AC sub panel will need
to be fed by the grid so there is a balanced 240VAC signal to it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>We are looking into the new East Penn Deka Unigy ll sealed
batteries. They seem to be a good deal less money than the GNB’s. Anyone have
any experience with these? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>With two SI5048’s sucking on this battery bank there is the possibility
of some serious current transfer taking place. We are proposing an absolute
minimum battery size that can go full load draw down for three hours, to 50%
DOD, my inclination is to make this 6 hours. At 3 hours we would need a 500 amp
hour battery. What are others doing about battery sizing in this scenario? (our
client hasn’t revealed what loads he wants to back up unfortunately so we are
approaching this in this manner)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Right now we are still in the dark as to whether or not there
will be a gen set involved. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I do know a WebBox will be interfaced between the SI’s and the
SB’s.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks for the continuing discussion on this thread and Happy
Thanksgiving to one and all.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Sincerely,<br>
<br>
Chris Worcester<br>
NABCEP Certified PV Installer<br>
Phone: 530-582-4503<br>
Fax: 530-582-4603<br>
<a href="http://www.solarwindworks.com/">www.solarwindworks.com</a><br>
<a href="mailto:chris@solarwindworks.com">chris@solarwindworks.com</a><br>
"Proven Energy Solutions"</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Geoff
Greenfield<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 26, 2008 7:28 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] More on AC coupling - SI and SB<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p><span style='color:black'>Matt-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style='color:black'>What is your prefered/recomended way to address
the 240 VAC SB series (we typically dont want to use a bunch of 700s or 1800s)
and the 120 VAC SI series? We used a pair of Outback PSX-240s but that
was extra work/cost. Other (larger) transformers? Torroid coil? Eaton?
I'm surprised SMA doesnt have a nice interface worked out for the North
American market...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:black'>Also wrenches... if
you go down this route, invest the time ahead of time on learning/preping for
the set up etc for SI in this application. It is not out of the box ready
to go, but involves a software upgrade, laptops and the right patch cord (an
issue if you are 5 hours away...).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='color:black'>For a
brighter energy future,<br>
<br>
Geoff Greenfield<br>
Founder and CEO<br>
</span><strong><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>Third Sun Solar &
Wind Power Ltd.</span></strong><b><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'><br>
</span></b><span style='color:black'>340 West State Street, Unit 25<br>
Athens, OH 45701<br>
<br>
740.597.3111 Fax 740.597.1548<br>
www.Third-Sun.com<br>
<br>
</span><em><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'>Clean Energy - Expertly
Installed</span></em><i><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:black'><br>
</span></i><span style='color:black'><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><br>
<br>
----- "Tump" <tump@hughes.net> wrote: <br>
> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Matt, I have long been interested in installing the SMA SI &
SBs but I have a VERY tough time selling $9ks worth of inverters, just to get
things started.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>In the system below I would not of hesitated in installing the SMA
SI & SB! I too agree that w/this type of scenario described below, I
would have given quite a bit of thought to using the SMAs. Can't beat the
battery charging, no charge controllers & expandability.</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'> Please if there is someone out there that has had experience
w/ the SMA SI & SB let us know if it is all that it is cracked up to be!</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>With passport in hand, I offer my help if someone out
there has a large system like this, that will be using the SI
& SB/WB type of set up.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>TUMP</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>> </span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
> <b>From:</b> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Matt
Tritt<br>
> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 25, 2008 9:21 PM<br>
> <b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] More on AC coupling<br>
> </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>I am curious as to why OutBacks
were used for this system instead of using SunnyIslands and SunnyBoys? From
what I can tell about the SI system, virtually no aspect of battery charging,
auto gen-start/stop, and interactive inverter control has been overlooked - or
remains to be engineered in the field by the installer. Because SunnyIslands
have the ability to "talk" to Sunny (or Windy)Boys, excess energy is
taken care of by "integrated load shedding" - no need for multiple
relays, dumpoads and voltage sensors. :-) The only limitation to these systems
(and only in 60 Hz land) is a maximum of 20 kW single, and 15 kW three phase
per autonomous load. I really like the flexibility of being able to connect all
AC inputs on the same line, as well as having the option to do direct battery
charging from a DC source (as long as you use a shunt to measure current).<br>
> I know this doesn't answer your questions, but for similar applications in
the future it would be good to take a close look at the SunnyIsland system.
They're cool.<br>
> Matt T<br>
> Mark Dickson wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Hello Wrenches,</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>On the heels of the previous thread:</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>We just got finished installing a system that utilizes an Outback
Quad stack and a 5.2kW array coupled to the AC panel via a Fronius IG5100--due
to a long home-run. The VFX’s are wired into the home in their
traditional manner, providing the “grid” for the Fronius. As the solar
comes in, excess power not used in the home back feeds the batteries through
the VFX’s. I have a series of relays operating dump loads and finally a
power cut-off for when the batteries reach critical level. We installed
the system yesterday and turned it on for a test run (then back off to power it
up in 2009 for the ITC’s)—it worked great!</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>I have a couple questions for you all:</span><span
style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ul style='margin-top:0in' type=disc>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Seems how we are
back feeding the inverters and forfeiting their charge control, where
would you set the dump loads to kick on?</span> <o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
<ul style='margin-top:0in' type=disc>
<ul style='margin-top:0in' type=circle>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>For now I have
them set at: 1<sup>st</sup> load to kick on at float voltages, 2<sup>nd</sup>
to kick on at bulk voltages and 3<sup>rd</sup> to kick the solar power
off at the EQ voltages. Does this make sense? The bank is
made up of Rolls 4ks-25ps batteries.</span> <o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
</ul>
<ul style='margin-top:0in' type=disc>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Following a
recent discussion on the Wrenches list with a similar system: Do I
need to worry about back feeding the generator if it is runnin in the morning
when the sun comes up? Do I need a relay that will shut it down when
solar comes on line?</span> <o:p></o:p></li>
<li class=MsoNormal style='color:navy;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I plan on
setting the Absorb and Float set times to a miimum. Would you
recommend this?</span> <o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Thanks for your input!</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:navy'>Mark Dickson</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:navy'>Oasis Montana Inc.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre style='text-align:center'><span style='color:black'>
<hr size=4 width="90%" align=center>
</span></pre><pre><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre><span
style='color:black'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span
style='color:black'>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span
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style='text-align:center'><span style='color:black'>
<hr size=4 width="90%" align=center>
</span></pre><pre><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre><span
style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='color:black'>Internal Virus Database is out of date.<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span
style='color:black'>Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com/"
target="_blank">http://www.avg.com</a> <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span
style='color:black'>Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.4/1794 - Release Date: 11/17/2008 8:48 AM<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span
style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></pre></blockquote>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><br>
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