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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hi Marco,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm moving this over to RE-Markets before I get my
Send button punched.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I agree and am a crystalline guy for now.
But if just 50% of the announced thin film factories come on line and only
half of the survivors match First Solar's cost/price/profit, then other thin
film wannabees a going to jump in.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>First Solar and SolarCity's recent deal
is interesting. See <A
href="http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-solar30-2008oct30,0,3945811.story">http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-solar30-2008oct30,0,3945811.story</A> I
have not had much success finding enough space on home roofs for
low-power density PV.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Paul Basore and James Gee gave the definitive
crystalline PV paper in 1994 (in your neighborhood!) and it still holds true.
See <A
href="http://www.osti.gov/bridge/servlets/purl/10106636-scc2Rs/webviewable/10106636.pdf">http://www.osti.gov/bridge/servlets/purl/10106636-scc2Rs/webviewable/10106636.pdf</A> </FONT><FONT
face=Arial size=2>I think Paul is at CSG Solar (crystalline) and James is
at Advent Solar (crystalline).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Aloha,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Joel</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=marco@pvthawaii.com href="mailto:marco@pvthawaii.com">Marco
Mangelsdorf</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">'RE-wrenches'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A
title=PMints@NavigantConsulting.com
href="mailto:PMints@NavigantConsulting.com">'Paula Mints'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November 01, 2008 11:21
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [RE-wrenches] crystalline VS
uni-solar and beyond</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal>Joel,<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>I’ve been either a participant or observer of the PV
field/industry as long as most greybeards in the field. And ever since
my entry in the RE biz in the 1970s, the promise from the touters of thin
films has been: 1) their product was going to revolutionize the industry, 2)
their product was going to dramatically lower the $/watt cost of PV and 3)
their product was going to replace that old fashioned and 1950s-vintage
crystalline silicon as the dominant semiconductor…in a few years, always in a
few years. And you know what? I’m still waiting for those
oft-repeated claims babbled ad nauseum to become reality. Yes, First
Solar is making great strides in establishing CdTe as a viable segment of the
market. And yes, UniSolar has carved a nice, and very small niche, in
the market as well. But if you look at the still near dominance of
crystalline (as in 85-90 percent) of the worldwide PV market, I still conclude
that when it comes to price, efficiency, dollars/watt installed, reliability,
longevity and unmatched operational time in the real world, this talk of thin
films being poised to take over is the same bunch of hooey that it was in the
1970s, 1980s, 1990s and now.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>My two aloha cents worth….<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>marco,<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>ProVision, Hawai’i<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Hi
Jay,</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">My
experience was the exact opposite with Unisolar triple-junction
structural standing seam systems in 1996 and megawatts of Unisolar from
2003 to 2007. My Unisolar tests and installations exceeded PVWATTS
kWh estimates by approx 5% (PVWATTS uses crystalline PV temperature
coefficient). PVWATTS is a reliable estimator for crystalline PV systems
when 0.65 dc-to-ac derate factor for battery based systems and 0.75 to 0.82
for batteryless systems was used. See <A
href="http://www.uni-solar.com/uploadedFiles/0.4.2_white_paper_3.pdf">http://www.uni-solar.com/uploadedFiles/0.4.2_white_paper_3.pdf</A></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">a-Si degradation is
no mystery. See <A
href="http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy00osti/28333.pdf">http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy00osti/28333.pdf</A> NREL
on-going tests since 1997 validates Unisolar's 20-year 80% warranty
claim. It is interesting that the time of year Unisolar is deployed affects
its light induced degradation. See "Recovery of Light Induced Degradation in
Amorphous Silicon Solar Cells and Modules."</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">I think that
Unisolar modules are suitable:</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">when high power
density is not required</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">if flexibility
and/or conformability are wanted</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">if partial shading
is an issue</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">if high cell
temperature is an issue</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">if building
integration is wanted</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">if no glass is
wanted</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">if its unique
appearance is wanted.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">The
"aluminum-frame-glass-module" monopoly has been broken. Unisolar's
persistence, First Solar's CdTe success, and the re-appearance of CIGS
(remember Arco/Siemens 1998 ST modules?) along with "see through" and
other flexible PV modules is changing PV. The lowest price per watt
(initial cost) is gradually giving way to lowest price per kilowatt-hour
(lifecycle cost). It's still a neck-n-neck which PV technology will
win, but there is no doubt that PV is winning almost everyone's heart and
mind.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Best
regards,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Joel
Davidson<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">"Not all change is
for the better, but nothing gets better without change." So vote for
change!</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">----- Original
Message ----- <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <A
title=jay@asis.com href="mailto:jay@asis.com">jay peltz</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <A
title=re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> Friday, October
31, 2008 10:23 PM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> Re:
[RE-wrenches] crystalline VS uni-solar<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Hi Joel, <o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>1. unisolar 64's and sharp single
cystal<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>2. SMA inverters<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>3. Arcata California<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>4. exact, I mean side by side with no shading, same
azimuth ( south) same tilt ( can't remember)<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>5. As to the unisolar producing more, I must stress
that I have never seen the Unisolar produce more than SC,
never.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>jay<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>peltz power<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On Oct 31, 2008, at 1:01 PM, Joel Davidson
wrote:<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Hello Jay,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><BR> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Sounds like something is wrong other than
Unisolar vs. crystalline. All things being equal, the Unisolar should
produce more kWh per kW than crystalline. Questions:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="COLOR: black">1. What modules and how many of
each?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="COLOR: black">2. What inverter or
inverters?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="COLOR: black">3. Geographic location?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="COLOR: black">4. Array azimuth and
tilt?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><BR> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Joel Davidson<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">----- Original Message
----<BR>From: jay peltz <<A
href="mailto:jay@asis.com">jay@asis.com</A>><BR>To: RE-wrenches <<A
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</A>><BR>Sent:
Friday, October 31, 2008 8:27:19 AM<BR>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches]
crystalline VS uni-solar<BR><BR>Hi Geoff, <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">In regards to the performance
between Unisolar and crystalline, there is a side by side ( same watts,
batteryless intertie with metering) installation up here on the North coast
of California, and the the Unisolar is the constant under-performer.
This includes cloudy, sunny, warm, cold
weather.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">I have seen nothing in the
field to support the Unisolar claims about better performance in low light
etc. That said, they do work better in very hot conditions, if thats
what you have.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">jay<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">peltz
power<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">On Oct 31, 2008, at 8:08 AM,
Geoff Greenfield wrote:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">As a follow up to my uni-solar
post (and thanks to all who provided feedback), I have a second
request:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Any references to recent
side-by side "shoot-outs" between Unisolar and conventional crystaline
PV? Scientific studies? Your own wrench
thoughts?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: black"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">I am more and more often
encountering confused customers that are considering unisolar systems at
zero-tilt (we are at 40 degrees N), with plenty of partial shading, after
getting a pitch about all sorts of advantages of Uni-Solar. I think
that this product has it's role and I occasionally sell it... But I am
frustrated when I truly believe I can deliver a better net energy production
with a tilted crystalline solution (avoiding the shaded areas). <SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">For a brighter energy future,<BR><BR>Geoff
Greenfield<BR>Founder and CEO<BR></SPAN><STRONG><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: black">Third Sun Solar & Wind Power
Ltd.</SPAN></STRONG><B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; COLOR: black"><BR></SPAN></B><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">340 West State Street, Unit 25<BR>Athens, OH
45701<BR><BR>740.597.3111 Fax 740.597.1548<BR><A
href="http://www.third-sun.com/"
target=_blank>www.Third-Sun.com</A><BR><BR><BR></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<P>
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