[RE-wrenches] Balcony Solar

Fri May 29 07:10:03 PDT 2026

Home Power Magazine had articles about it, and called it Guerilla Solar.

_Drake Chamberlin_

_Athens Electric LLC_

_Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810_

_NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional_

---

On 2026-05-28 15:10, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote:

> Hi Zeke
> 
> I see a few issues.
> 
> If there is a circuit with A as the first outlet then B,C,d. If the 16A 
> is put into B then C and D now have the potential for 36 amps. Bit high 
> for 12 ga wire.
> 
> As to the meters as far as I know most all meters unless configured for 
> bidirectional use either are mechanical ratcheting so they cant count 
> backwards. Or are electronic and I'm unclear as to what happens. I e 
> heard they count up either direction so if your selling power the meter 
> adds or it might just lock like the ratcheting. I guess depending on 
> the meter.
> 
> Finally I live in an all electric house and for most of the year, 8+ 
> months when I'm not using heat, my daytime base loads are like 200 
> watts. Of course if someone is home then could be laundry etc.
> 
> A small system say 400 watts or less is going to be mostly used for 
> some daytime self consumption. But 2000 watts is way overkill and for 
> most it seems it will be wasted for the consumer. And as you say it'll 
> make people mad about how little it's doing.
> 
> Finally as to dates. I had a OK4U made by NKF back in 2000 grid tie 
> micro inverter for a single 100 watt panel plugged into an outlet on my 
> deck.  I keep reading it's a new idea, nope.
> 
> Big push lots of hype.
> 
>> On May 28, 2026, at 9:40 AM, Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches 
>> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
> 
>> Trying to wrap my brain around exactly what this entails.  
>> Specifically in Colorado, as that's where I still do most of my design 
>> work, but also in other places if it's different/better/worse/etc....
>> 
>> This is the actual text of the Colorado bill
>> https://leg.colorado.gov/bill_files/116074/download
>> 
>> From reading it... it appears that it's limited to 1920 watts AC 
>> output, and limited to one system per address.  Systems under 391 
>> watts AC output are exempt from a number of other requirements (which 
>> seem to pertain mostly to NABCEP certified supervisors and licensed 
>> electricians), but still have to be UL listed.  Does that imply that 
>> licensed electricians or NABCEP certified installers must install ones 
>> between 391 watts and 1920 watts?
>> 
>> It appears that utilities cannot require approval, a fee, or any 
>> modifications to the house electrical system (4a) but can require 
>> being notified of the installation and size (4b)
>> 
>> I am wondering how this works with ratcheted meters, which is the norm 
>> nowadays in Colorado.  I have asked Xcel for their guidance on this.
>> 
>> In general... the idea of balcony solar seems very problematic.  While 
>> I'm totally in support of more solar on the grid, and making smaller 
>> systems more doable, I have lots of questions on how this will work in 
>> reality.
>> 
>> 1) Structural issues:  Most homeowners do not know how to properly 
>> mount solar panels against the winds that we have in Colorado.  It's 
>> normal for cars and neighbors to be assulted by wandering trash cans 
>> during every windstorm... adding errant solar modules to this doesn't 
>> seem like a good idea.  Most temporary solar racking I've seen from 
>> manfucturers (from RV solar sellers mostly) is completely inadequate 
>> to withstand 100+mph winds as well.  How will proper securing of the 
>> solar modules be enforced?
>> 
>> 2) Electrical integration:  1920 watts is a fully loaded 20A 120 volt 
>> output (16A continuous).  If it is a new, high quality outlet, it 
>> should be good for that, but what if it is a old outlet on the deck 
>> that's gotten all loose from 30 years of power tools and christmas 
>> lights being plugged and unplugged?  What if it's the $1.99 consumer 
>> version of the outlet, not the $8.99 commercial version?  I've seen 
>> the cheaper ones, and many old loose ones, burn up when used with 
>> electric space heaters, which is a similar amperage and time span load 
>> to a full size balcony solar system.
>> 
>> 3) Metering: Since most all utilities in Colorado now use ratcheted 
>> meters, it will be a problem if the system exports without somehow 
>> getting a bidirectional meter.  If it is a lightly loaded apartment, 
>> where a 1920 watt system would really make a different in energy use, 
>> then it's likely the baseload will be below 1920 watts midday, and it 
>> needs to export.  If it's a larger house where the baseload midday is 
>> over 1920 watts, then export isn't the issue, but the problem is that 
>> people will install a 1920 watt system when they really need a 5 or 8 
>> or 12kW system to affect their bill much -- and then they'll just 
>> decide that "solar doesn't work" and it will give solar a bad name for 
>> more people.  Given that most people don't understand kWh and energy 
>> use, and marketing always seems to overpromise what equipment can do, 
>> I don't expect that a majority of consumers will understand that a 
>> 1920 watt system is not sufficient to make a significant impact for a 
>> majority of houses out there.  I've even had customers install 10kW 
>> systems, and not understand that by adding a hot tub and electric 
>> water heater and heat pump and electric range at the same time, they 
>> overwhelmed the production of the system, and that's why their bill 
>> actually went up.
>> 
>> 4) Licensure and permits:   This could solve some of the issues 
>> above... but Colorado allows homeowners to pull permits so licensure 
>> and training of the installer is still no guaranteed.  And most 
>> building departments have a permitting process that's aimed at larger 
>> systems... a large system requiring 10 pages of documentation and an 
>> engineers stamp and a $500 permit fee is not unreasonable.  But for a 
>> $2000 balcony kit... how can permitting enforce some basic standards, 
>> without becoming a insurmountable hurdle.   Also, as a professional 
>> installer, I found that fixed costs were a large portion of the cost 
>> of installing a system.  My cost to do drawings, get a PE stamp for 
>> the roof/racking, file for a permit, file for interconnection 
>> agreement, and roll a truck were pretty much the same for a 3kW system 
>> or a 10kW system.  There was more onsite labor for the 10kW system 
>> doing racking and modules, but even electrical wiring was about the 
>> same onsite labor for both sizes.  Onsite labor should be much less 
>> for a balcony solar system, especially if plugging into a deck outlet 
>> (replacing it with a brand new commercial quality 20A outlet maybe).  
>> But costs for drawings, permitting, interconnection won't be different 
>> unless a different system is made.  Materials are obviously more for 
>> the larger systems, but labor made the overall total cost quite a bit 
>> higher per watt for the smaller systems, and going to a one or two 
>> panel system could be even more share for the off-site labor portion 
>> of the total cost.  If building departments and utilities put the 
>> balcony solar systems through the same paperwork as larger systems, I 
>> can easily see that costing more than the materials or onsite labor.
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Zeke Yewdall
>> PV Engineer
>> NABCEP #031508-89
>> zeke at darkforestsolar.com
>> 303-523-3592 _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>> 
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>> 
>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> 
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>> 
>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try 
>> the other:
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>> 
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>> 
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
> 
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
> 
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
> 
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
> 
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try 
> the other:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
> 
> List rules & etiquette:
> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
> 
> Check out or update participant bios:
> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20260529/069edcf2/attachment.htm>