[RE-wrenches] N-G bond for supply side connection Midnite Power

Sat Nov 1 10:43:41 PDT 2025

Jay,

I agree with what you’re saying — but as installers and customers continue
to allow rulemakers and utilities to impose increasingly complex operating
requirements, we’re seeing a real shift in priorities.

*“We are trading reliability for safety to the extent that the reliability
level is unacceptable.”*

That statement is 100% correct, and the focus should indeed be on *“we.”*

Manufacturers are forced to implement these ever-growing rules,
certifications, listings, and “requirements” just to sell equipment. Many
of us would love to go back to the days of the old Trace 4048 UL1741
requirements — those systems were rock-solid and simple. If today’s AIO
inverters were held to that same UL1741 standard, they’d not only be more
reliable but also far more affordable. It is an Apple to Oranges comparison.

Unfortunately, now we have to let utilities *control* the inverters, comply
with ESS regulations, and meet layers of additional rules that most
installers never even see. In California, for example, a manufacturer must
appear on the CEC list under three separate categories — and even that’s
not the end. Many utilities have their own lists, their own proprietary
requirements, and in some cases (like certain East Coast utilities), they
demand that manufacturers send them free inverters for testing before being
approved for grid connection.

This is no longer just a manufacturer issue — it’s much bigger than that,
and it’s only getting worse.

And as for the idea that utility power is inherently superior — I can’t
agree with that either. My own co-op has *four times *the outages that my
inverter does. Depending on the utility, that claim simply doesn’t hold
true. If the trend continues, I believe utility reliability will only keep
declining.

The real question is if the manufacturer keeps on improving the product and
addressing the issues? Or does it make excuses and then launches a "New"
product to make up for the shortcoming only to have the same issues with
the "New" products.

On Sat, Nov 1, 2025 at 9:33 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Recently, I had a manufacturer's rep suggest different battery cable sizes
> for eight LFP batteries that were widely varying in distance to the
> combiner busbars. I had already made the 2/0 cables exactly the same length
> for all batteries with the longest being about 20 feet, so I didn't see the
> need to have different size wires. But it goes to show how there are
> conflicting suggestions out there on how to approach the issue of cable
> length and size.
>
> When you have a very large battery bank and/or inverter relative to the
> load or charging source, the cable size and length can become a pretty moot
> point. For example, if you have a 10-battery 160 kWh battery bank that can
> accept an 80+ kW charge rate, but you only have 40 kW of PV, you're looking
> at max 4 kW of charge per battery, and that assumes you have enough charger
> capacity and all of the PV is maxed out at the same time. You might see 80
> amps per battery with 2/0 battery cable, and only at peak sun. The voltage
> drop will be next to nothing for reasonably short cable lengths (i.e. 0.63%
> for 20 feet of cable).
>
> The same thing goes for discharge. If you have the same 160 kWh battery
> bank, it might be suitable for a home that sees a sustained load of just a
> few thousand watts, with spikes in the mid-teens. Even if the house is
> burning 20 kW for some time, you're looking at 2 kW per battery, or about
> 40 amps. Again, any differences in voltage drop should be inconsequential.
>
> When manufacturers tell us that we need to keep things the same length and
> upsize this and that, the assumption is that we are running these systems
> on the edge of the performance window, which is rarely the case in my
> experience. Usually, these nuisance alarms and faults occur nowhere near
> the edge cases. They occur during everyday ho-hum operation, even at the
> bottom of the performance window where voltage drop is a non-factor.
>
> In my opinion, these inverters are way too sensitive to the bonding issues
> we are discussing. From a homeowner's perspective, "this doesn't happen
> with the grid, so it shouldn't happen with the inverter." From the solar
> pro's perspective, "this didn't happen with the old SW5548 I replaced with
> an AIO." Both points are valid. I understand that manufacturers need to
> meet certain requirements to list their equipment, but there is theory and
> then there is reality. We are trading reliability for safety to the extent
> that the reliability level is unacceptable.
>
>
> Don't even get me started about arc-fault sensitivity...
>
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 31, 2025 at 11:01 AM jay via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> As to the issue of wire size.
>>
>> Isn’t really that the OEM's want a specific maximum resistance of the
>> wire between the multiple inverters and batteries for that matter?
>>
>> I am reminded of a project I did 1.5 yrs ago with 10 Fortress Evault max
>> and 3 inverters.   Of course fortress wanted equal wire lengths between the
>> batteries to the combiner.
>> Given the number of them, and the layout it was going to take about
>> $3000+ more in wire and where to put all that wire.
>> I thought about it, and came to the realization that they really just
>> wanted equal VD between them.  I did the calculations based on max
>> load/charge split between the batteries  and ran the numbers by their
>> senior tech/engineering staff, they agreed.  Basically in short, closest
>> battery had 1/0, then they worked up to 4/0 at the end.  All the VD between
>> them was about .5% which they approved. This saved me and the client a ton
>> of money and a huge hassle over where to actually store all that wire.
>>
>> This issue with inverter cables needing to be the same length is the same
>> thing.  They don’t have to be the same length they have to have a similar
>> VD between them.  What is that number supposed to be?  We are engineers or
>> play at being engineers, tell us what we need to know.  Do we need to buy a
>> resistance tester to confirm the wires meet a specific standard?
>> All wires are not the same.  What if Im using two different
>> brands/ratings  of 4/0 because I ran out or my supplier ran out.  How am I
>> supposed to know?
>>
>> When I look at the old Trace manual, yes I have them still of the SW
>> 4024, they at least had X wire size for Y distance and then different sizes
>> for longer distances.  Midnight just has 4/0.  Luxpower has numerous
>> combinations of wire sizes per distance.    But I would like to know what
>> am I supposed to be aiming for? .5% VD at rated power? Or is it peak power
>> or? Or some actual resistance measurement or? or what is it? If I know what
>> its supposed to be then I can mix and match wire sizes to get the correct %
>> VD.
>>
>>
>>
>> Don’t just tell me 4/0.
>>
>> jay
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 30, 2025, at 7:39 AM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>> Jay, what they were telling me is that with multiple inverters, the 4/0
>> cables to each inverter need to be the same length. We did not specifically
>> discuss whether positive needed to be the same length as the negative
>> cables. I would think it is more important that the positive cables are all
>> the same length and that the negative cables are all the same length.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Dave
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2025 at 9:36 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Thx dave.
>>>
>>> To be clear MP is saying for a single inverter the positive and negative
>>> 4/0 to the inverter need to be the same length?
>>>
>>> Jay
>>>
>>> On Oct 30, 2025, at 7:19 AM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> Here is an installation tips document that I got from Midnite at some
>>> point. The battery cables needing to be the same length from the battery
>>> combining busbar to the inverters may not be in there, but tech support is
>>> very clear about that point. Otherwise, there is some good stuff in here.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 29, 2025 at 10:20 PM Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jay
>>>> If you call MNP Technical Support they should be able to email you a
>>>> link or get you pdf breakdowns of the trainings with best practice
>>>> recommendations too
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 29, 2025, 7:07 PM William Bryce via RE-wrenches <
>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Jay
>>>>>
>>>>> It is not in the manual, but it is addressed in the training videos.
>>>>> Hopefully it will get in the manual on the next revision.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Oct 29, 2025 at 8:16 PM Jay via RE-wrenches <
>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thx william
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I looked through the install manual and didn’t see the requirements
>>>>>> for equal length cables.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where would I find this?  Did I miss it or is it in a white paper or?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thx
>>>>>> Jay
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 29, 2025, at 11:27 AM, William Bryce via RE-wrenches <
>>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Jay
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The install principles are for both on and off grid. When on grid you
>>>>>> have increased issues with current circles, and imbalanced voltage issues
>>>>>> from bad wiring practices.
>>>>>> On off grid it is current issues, when the installer goes cheap with
>>>>>> smaller wire, AU wire and states "the Load is only XX Kw" so I do not need
>>>>>> a #2AWG wire on the output".
>>>>>> We know that is never true, and the customer will always increase
>>>>>> loads or underestimate loads. The inverter also has a large surge capacity,
>>>>>> So the inverter will starve for Amps when needed on the DC side, and have a
>>>>>> high resistance on the AC side.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When you follow the recommended wire sizes in the manual, the errors
>>>>>> go to almost zero, unless you have N to G bonds all over the place. That is
>>>>>> another issue altogether, that has been talked about.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the end, AIO inverters are different from what us older guys are
>>>>>> used to. Before we could get away with all types of shortcuts when the box
>>>>>> was full of heavy copper and only made AC power. AIO's are really complex,
>>>>>> and the little things in the install matter. The New RULES are making it
>>>>>> even harder ESS, PCS, ECT... More rules, more code, more issues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 29, 2025 at 1:04 PM jay via RE-wrenches <
>>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> HI William
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is for both on and off grid correct?
>>>>>>> jay
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 29, 2025, at 10:34 AM, William Bryce via RE-wrenches <
>>>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Dave
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The AC wires need to be the same size and try to have the
>>>>>>> same length. This is important because the inverter when stacked "shares"
>>>>>>> the power so you want to try to prevent any imbalance in voltage and
>>>>>>> resistance issues, or circle issues.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In older stacked systems you have a master and a slave and when the
>>>>>>> power demand increases then the slave would take the excess. On AIO's the
>>>>>>> power is shared equally all the time (this is a good thing as you don't get
>>>>>>> the flicker as the slave picks up). It is important that the install takes
>>>>>>> into account the  different way the power is used and delivered. Have a
>>>>>>> clean install, with the correct sized conductors as specified by the
>>>>>>> manufacturer, and try to keep the wire run short and equal when connecting
>>>>>>> the inverter AC runs  together.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 29, 2025 at 9:41 AM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
>>>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> William this is really good information, thanks for sharing the
>>>>>>>> technical perspective.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have two sites with two of these inverters and both of them are
>>>>>>>> exhibiting very similar behavior. On Friday, I was out at the other one to
>>>>>>>> wrap up a few things. While I was out there I verified some of the things
>>>>>>>> that Midnite tech support suggested like making sure that the AC wires to
>>>>>>>> each inverter's grid in and cables are the same length and also from the
>>>>>>>> battery bus bar to each inverter are the same length. This was actually a
>>>>>>>> bit surprising to me, considering with lead acid it is more important to
>>>>>>>> have the battery cables from the bus bar to the batteries be the exact same
>>>>>>>> length and the cables to the inverters did not matter as much.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Based on what we were talking about last week, I removed the N-G
>>>>>>>> bond in the disconnect for the solar, but I have not yet gone looking for
>>>>>>>> other N-G connections in the way that Jason suggested. I have not gotten a
>>>>>>>> CA-DC link overvoltage error, but I have still seen some of the symptoms.
>>>>>>>> It is not as bad as the other site, but what I notice on the monitoring is
>>>>>>>> that in the late afternoon/early evening one inverter shows an unreasonable
>>>>>>>> amount of solar (with power going into the grid and into the battery),
>>>>>>>> while the other inverter shows low solar (with a ton of power coming out of
>>>>>>>> the battery going to the load and the grid), and the battery SOC drops very
>>>>>>>> quickly down to the discharge end SOC (on grid) setting of 85%.
>>>>>>>> Jason and William, do you know whether any faulty wiring with N-G
>>>>>>>> connected in loads on the non-backed up side will affect the system the
>>>>>>>> same way? Or is it mostly just important to check for any neutrals
>>>>>>>> connected to ground on the backed up loads side?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jason, as to why a supply side connection - I was under the
>>>>>>>> impression that a Power Control System just effectively limits the amount
>>>>>>>> of power that can be sold to the grid. But on a standard 200A service, that
>>>>>>>> limits you to about 7.7kw of sell back. I would not want to limit the
>>>>>>>> system that much for a roughly 20kw system, even if more than the 7.7kw can
>>>>>>>> go to powering loads and battery charging. In the Midnite monitoring, it is
>>>>>>>> pretty easy to limit the grid sell back with the "maximum feed in grid
>>>>>>>> power" in the Power Control settings.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 26, 2025 at 8:51 AM William Bryce via RE-wrenches <
>>>>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Most modern all-in-one (AIO) inverters are designed around a non-isolated
>>>>>>>>> high-voltage DC bus. This design is what allows manufacturers to advertise
>>>>>>>>> higher output numbers — for example, “15–18 kW” — while the inverter may
>>>>>>>>> only deliver 12 kW during nighttime operation when PV isn’t contributing
>>>>>>>>> (it is also cheaper to build). Without the shared non-isolated DC link,
>>>>>>>>> these power-boosted daytime ratings wouldn’t be possible.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A DC-bus overvoltage fault almost always points to one of two
>>>>>>>>> issues:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    1.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    Improper system design
>>>>>>>>>    2.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    Wiring and installation mistakes
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Off-Grid Example
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A common DIY mistake is pairing a large solar array (because
>>>>>>>>> glass is cheap) with a relatively small battery (not as cheap).
>>>>>>>>> When the battery is full and a large load suddenly turns off, the
>>>>>>>>> excess energy has nowhere to go. The inverter throttles back, but the
>>>>>>>>> stored energy can still push the DC-bus voltage up rapidly. If the inverter
>>>>>>>>> didn’t protect itself, the capacitors would be at risk — so it shuts down
>>>>>>>>> with an overvoltage error. This is also common when using a large
>>>>>>>>> retrofitted AC coupled array.
>>>>>>>>> Grid-Tie Example
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In grid-connected systems, DC-bus overvoltage is typically caused
>>>>>>>>> by wiring mistakes, some common examples are:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Multiple neutral-to-ground bonds
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Reversed hot/neutral at outlets
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A single inverter is usually more forgiving. However, stacked
>>>>>>>>> inverters must share phase, neutral, and grounding relationships
>>>>>>>>> precisely. Any mis-wiring can create circulating currents. That
>>>>>>>>> circulating energy is not accounted for in the inverter’s internal power
>>>>>>>>> calculations, so the DC-bus voltage rises unexpectedly — and the inverter
>>>>>>>>> shuts down for protection.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A DC Link Overvoltage error is usually not an inverter defect —
>>>>>>>>> it’s a system design or system wiring problem 99% of the time. Ensuring
>>>>>>>>> proper neutral/ground bonding, correct polarity, adequate battery capacity,
>>>>>>>>> and proper commissioning is critical to reliable AIO operation.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This behavior is not unique to the MN AIO — all AIO inverters using
>>>>>>>>> a non-isolated DC-bus topology share the same fundamental protection
>>>>>>>>> limitations.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Inverters are getting more complex to deal with the new rules and
>>>>>>>>> utility requirements, this causes reliability issues as we move (or pushed)
>>>>>>>>> to full integration with the grid.  Because you know we all want the
>>>>>>>>> utility to have full control over our systems!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 25, 2025 at 9:51 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <
>>>>>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I had an issue with a EG4 inverter and tech support was an
>>>>>>>>>> insistent that there was multiple ground neutral bonds in the system. Fully
>>>>>>>>>> off grid system with no generator.
>>>>>>>>>> It wasn’t the issue but it seems like these inverters are
>>>>>>>>>> sensitive to it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Is the inverter internally bonded, not that I’m aware of or what
>>>>>>>>>> I’ve measured.
>>>>>>>>>> And so I can’t figure out what it’s measuring between N/G to have
>>>>>>>>>> a potential issue.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Maybe someone can explain?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jay
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 24, 2025, at 6:49 PM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
>>>>>>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks all for your thoughts here. It seems that the general
>>>>>>>>>> consensus so far is that the N-G should be bonded in the solar main
>>>>>>>>>> disconnecting means when doing a supply side connection (even if it is not
>>>>>>>>>> technically a separate service). When talking with Midnite Power, we made
>>>>>>>>>> it very clear that we were talking about a N-G bond in the inverter
>>>>>>>>>> combiner / solar main disconnect, and not the backed up loads panel. And
>>>>>>>>>> being that NY is still on 2017 code (only going to 2020 next year), with
>>>>>>>>>> the ambiguity in the code I am probably okay to undo the N-G connection in
>>>>>>>>>> the main solar disconnect.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In this case specifically, we are backing up only a small subset
>>>>>>>>>> of loads in the house. The reason for the two inverters is because there is
>>>>>>>>>> about 24kw of solar. There is also a manual transfer switch to normally be
>>>>>>>>>> able to power the loads off the inverters, but to be able to switch to
>>>>>>>>>> powering the loads off the main panel in case of service needed on the
>>>>>>>>>> inverters. The neutrals in this system are all connected together, and I am
>>>>>>>>>> not sure if that could cause issues. It is probably difficult to explain
>>>>>>>>>> all the details in words, so I am copying part of the three line diagram
>>>>>>>>>> here. The second picture is the conductor and conduit schedule.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Tom, I get it that the error sounds like it is on the DC side
>>>>>>>>>> based on the words, but when I talked to Midnite about it they were pretty
>>>>>>>>>> clear about it being due to multiple N-G bonds and they did not mention
>>>>>>>>>> that it could have anything to do with the DC side.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jason, that is a good idea as well to check the loads that got
>>>>>>>>>> moved over to see if there are any other inadvertent N-G bonds on the
>>>>>>>>>> premises. This also similar to what Midnite suggested, which was to lift
>>>>>>>>>> the N-G bond in the main panel and then see if they are still bonded
>>>>>>>>>> somewhere else. It seems like it can be a slow process to track that down
>>>>>>>>>> with power cut to the house, but that might be what I have to try if
>>>>>>>>>> removing the N-G bond in the solar main disconnect does not help.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So, my main questions to anyone who has an opinion here are two
>>>>>>>>>> fold:
>>>>>>>>>> 1. Do you bond the N-G in general in the main solar disconnect
>>>>>>>>>> for a supply side connection?
>>>>>>>>>> 2. Specifically with the Midnite AIO inverters, has anyone else
>>>>>>>>>> had issues with this "CA-DC link Overvoltage error" due to having a second
>>>>>>>>>> N-G bond in the house? (one in the main service panel, and one in the solar
>>>>>>>>>> main disconnect if it is a supply side connection). Or have you seen this
>>>>>>>>>> error and found that it was caused by something else?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 23, 2025 at 5:25 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>>>>>>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I agree. It is not a separate service. It is a "tap" of the
>>>>>>>>>>> existing service (I use that term loosely here). The additional service
>>>>>>>>>>> disconnect for the supply side interconnection should have L1, L2, and N
>>>>>>>>>>> connected ahead of the premises main disconnect with no EGC. There should
>>>>>>>>>>> be a N-G bonding jumper in the PV service disconnect. Then there should be
>>>>>>>>>>> no N-G bonds downstream of both the premises main disconnect and the PV
>>>>>>>>>>> service disconnect.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Basically, it's the same as two main disconnects running from a
>>>>>>>>>>> meter enclosure. Each of the service disconnects has a N-G bond required.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Some AHJs (the crazy ones) require an EGC between the enclosure
>>>>>>>>>>> where the supply side connection is made and the PV service disconnect.
>>>>>>>>>>> This creates a parallel fault path, and should not be allowed, in my humble
>>>>>>>>>>> opinion.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Now it sounds like you might be doing a partial home backup. The
>>>>>>>>>>> issue there is that sometimes the loads or enclosures you moved over the
>>>>>>>>>>> backup load panel have inadvertent N-G bonds. Sometimes it's as simple as
>>>>>>>>>>> someone who got creative and used a ground as a neutral in a switch box. I
>>>>>>>>>>> say simple, but that can be hard to track down.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> When Midnite said to remove it from the inverter distribution
>>>>>>>>>>> panel, they were probably talking about the protected loads panel.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think more information is needed.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>>>>>>>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>>>>>>>>>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>>>>>>>>>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>>>>>>>>>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 23, 2025 at 11:03 AM Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches <
>>>>>>>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> My interpretation, and the way it was explained to me by both
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ryan Mayfield and Kyle Bolger(several years ago at this point, popular
>>>>>>>>>>>> opinion may have changed since). Is that it is not a seperate service.
>>>>>>>>>>>>  It is however required to have a ground-neutral bond( though
>>>>>>>>>>>> in my opinion pointless and redundant as there is a bond in the enclosure
>>>>>>>>>>>> where the tap is made). If it gives you any issue, ensure as close to equal
>>>>>>>>>>>> potential to the grounding electrode as possible(and make sure your neutral
>>>>>>>>>>>> is appropriately sized). I personally don't see the point but it is an NEC
>>>>>>>>>>>> requirement
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 23, 2025, 6:08 AM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches <
>>>>>>>>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> For years I have understood that when doing a supply side
>>>>>>>>>>>>> connection, you are supposed to bond the neutral to ground in the solar
>>>>>>>>>>>>> service disconnect. I have a Midnite AIO system with two inverters (set up
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as a supply side connection) that recently was getting a CA-DC link
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Overvoltage error. When talking to Midnite, their first response was to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> make sure that there was only one N-G bond in the whole system. When I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mentioned that the solar is a separate service and thus there is a N-G bond
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in both the main panel and the inverter distribution panel, they said to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> remove it from the inverter distribution panel. I want to make the system
>>>>>>>>>>>>> work right, but I also am hesitant to do something against how I have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> understood the NEC to be for a long time. I am curious if you all have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> thoughts on this or run into a similar situation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dave
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Logo] <https://www.sungineersolar.com/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dave Tedeyan, P.E.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Owner | Sungineer Solar
>>>>>>>>>>>>> p: he | him | his
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a: 1653 Slaterville Rd.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1653+Slaterville+Rd.+%C2%A0+%7C%C2%A0Ithaca,+NY+14850?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1653+Slaterville+Rd.+%C2%A0+%7C%C2%A0Ithaca,+NY+14850?entry=gmail&source=g>| Ithaca,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> NY 14850
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1653+Slaterville+Rd.+%C2%A0+%7C%C2%A0Ithaca,+NY+14850?entry=gmail&source=g>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> w: www.sungineersolar.com <http://www.sungineersolar.com/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> c:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1653+Slaterville+Rd.+%C2%A0+%7C%C2%A0Ithaca,+NY+14850?entry=gmail&source=g>(607)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 270-0370
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
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>>>>>>>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>> work, try the other:
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>> work, try the other:
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> <PV3.0 as built.jpg>
>>>>>>>>>> <PV3.1 as built.jpg>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work,
>>>>>>>>>> try the other:
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work,
>>>>>>>>>> try the other:
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work,
>>>>>>>>> try the other:
>>>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work,
>>>>>>>> try the other:
>>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work,
>>>>>>> try the other:
>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work,
>>>>>>> try the other:
>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try
>>>>>> the other:
>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try
>>>>>> the other:
>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>>
>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>>>
>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>
>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try
>>>>> the other:
>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>>
>>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>>
>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try
>>>> the other:
>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>>
>>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>>
>>>> <Installation Tips (2).pdf>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try
>>> the other:
>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List rules & etiquette:
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>>>
>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try
>>> the other:
>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>
>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
>> other:
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
>> other:
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
> other:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
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