[RE-wrenches] Midnite AIO Generator Functionality

Tue May 13 07:02:02 PDT 2025

HONDA EU7000IS SUPER QUIET INVERTER GENERATOR

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This is my baby Jay!  Still have it's younger brother running for 15 
years+. Propane connection by http://genconnexdirect.net/

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
    [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridsolar at sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2025-05-12 4:34 pm, Jay via RE-wrenches wrote:

> Hi Howie
> 
> It's incredibly infuriating that the generator  charging doesn't happen 
> if you manually turn it on, regardless of the ags start/stop settings.
> The lux power is like that. I can't speak to sol ark. It has to be 
> within the preset ags start stop settings.
> 
> And why after 30 yrs don't we have the same parameters we used to?
> IE manual on then to auto so it will auto  shut off?
> 
> Or quiet time
> 
> Or an off/on/auto switch
> 
> Or inverter support
> 
> Adjustable warm up/cool down times
> 
> Ags is already the most problematic thing, why make it worse?
> 
> The part I really don't understand is that these machines have some 
> pretty high powered computers in them and these features should be easy 
> to add.
> 
> On a related note, what generators are people using with the 8-12 kw 
> inverters?
> 
> Jay
> 
>> On May 12, 2025, at 3:59 PM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches 
>> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
> 
> With the AIO, there are a few different basic settings that affect the 
> charging scenario for using a generator to charge the batteries: The 
> Gen start and stop relay (simple open and closed dry contact) and the 
> battery charging parameter (which determines what SOC the AIO will 
> charge the batteries to).  It wasn't intuitive for me at first, but now 
> that I'm used to it, it's not complicated.
> 
> * If I'm using the AIO to start the generator I set the battery 
> charging to start at whatever SOC the client wants to let the batteries 
> discharge to before the gen kicks in, typically somewhere between 25% 
> and 35% (depending on battery capacity, time of year, size of array, 
> size of loads, etc). There is an AGS off  setting, which I might set at 
> anywhere from 45% to 85%, again depending on site factors. If the 
> battery charging parameter is set lower than the ending AGS setting, 
> the generator will continue to run and only carry the loads, but not 
> charge the batteries - obviously not a recommended scenario.
> * If the client is manually starting and stopping the generator, then I 
> set the AGS start at as high as it will go (90%) and stop at 100%, but 
> disengage the remote genstart signal either at the generator or with an 
> interrupting switch in the control wires. Otherwise if the SOC is 
> higher the the gen start setting when the generator is manually turned 
> on, the AIO will only use the generator to carry the loads, and again, 
> not charge the batteries.  There is a "force charge" setting which 
> tells the AIO to charge the batteries if AC is present regardless of 
> the other settings, but I believe this setting drops back to off when 
> the charging stops, so the 90% gen start setting is more reliable for 
> manual gen starting.  If the client is bouncing back and forth between 
> auto starting and manual starting, they need to understand the 
> limitations of the programming.  I have implored Midnite to change the 
> "Dry force" parameter (which start the generator through the AIO 
> manually) to a gen control parameter, with an "Off, Auto, On" option, 
> which would override the battery charge setting in the "On" position, 
> forcing a charge when this option is used.
> 
> As far as solar charging goes when the inverter goes to standby if the 
> battery SOC drops below the "Discharge To (%)" (which I usually set to 
> at least 10% if not higher, again depending on the site specific 
> circumstances), in my experience the AIO continues to use the solar to 
> charge the batteries when available as long as the batteries haven't 
> gone dark and shut the inverter off. The client will need to put the 
> inverter from standby to "On' once the batteries have come back up to 
> the minimum battery SOC setting. I also believe if the batteries 
> haven't shut down, if the generator is started, the AIO will charge the 
> batteries if the inverter is turned back on, although I don't swear to 
> this.
> 
> Howie
> 
> Sun Catcher
> 
> Howie Michaelson
> 
> On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 5:25 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches 
> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
> Jason,
> Cant you just make the AGS turn on the generator before the inverter 
> gets to the LBCO? Maybe this is more difficult if you do not have 
> closed loop comms and the SOC drifts. I am just working through my 
> first Midnite AIO setup now, so I cannot speak to the nuances of how it 
> will work with that yet.
> Cheers,
> Dave
> 
> On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 4:01 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches 
> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
> 
> That has not been my experience.  I have had to manually reboot Solark 
> systems numerous time off grid.  If there is snow on the array or 
> otherwise low PV output for a few days, the no load draw of the BMS 
> then takes the battery voltage low enough to shut the battery off.   
> This would be a different situation with a knowledgeable owner onsite 
> full time, but for vacation properties, it will go into complete shut 
> down, not coming back.
> 
> Which gets into the manual and tech support for Solark:  its really not 
> clear what the different settings do, and how they interact.  I'm sure 
> there are engineers that know, but they aren't at Tech support. At 
> least you can change the programming on the touch screen, and you don't 
> have to get a quirky app up off grid to do basic changes.
> 
> BTW, what happens when the developers quit keeping the App updated, 10 
> years from now, and you can't access the programming?  Planned 
> Obsolescence?  That 33 yr old Trace Inverter is still doing its 
> job.....
> 
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 
> On 5/12/2025 11:33 AM, MDElectricSolar via RE-wrenches wrote: We have 
> been using the Solark inverter for GTBB and off grid clients. In the 
> case of low battery cut out the solar does stay alive in the background 
> and will recharge the batteries when the sun comes out the next day and 
> turn itself back on and provide AC power output.
> 
> Michael D Nelson
> MD Electric & Solar, Inc.
> 707-684-0064 mobile
> 707-884-1862 office
> www.mdelectricsolar.com [3]
> www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar [4]
> 
> On May 12, 2025, at 10:13 AM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches 
> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
> 
> So the bypass switch gets the house power on, and I too always 
> recommend a hard bypass switch. However, you still need a 48 v power 
> supply to get the battery system back up, and that's becoming a serious 
> pain in my aging backside.  Until AIOs with Li+ batteries, lead acid 
> would have enough voltage to get the charge controller to come back on, 
> and eventually the customer could get the inverter back on too.  No 
> special trip out.
> 
> We need an independent circuit that would sense array voltage, and wake 
> up the battery, so it could take a charge: a backup battery for the 
> offgrid battery.  Without that, AIOs and Li+ batteries are not self 
> healing like Lead Acid.  We are going backwards fast, but with an 
> amazing amount of new Chinese technology driving the jalopy in reverse. 
>  (Danger Will Robinson)
> 
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 
> On 5/12/2025 10:54 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
> 
> We always recommend a transfer switch to bypass the inverter and send 
> generator power to the loads. Most clients take us up on it. For 
> retrofits, sometimes there can be space limitations, however.
> 
> As for the function of the AIO, there is no integrated mechanical 
> bypass, and since there is an internal relay controlling the generator 
> input (or smart load output on that breaker), I think the default 
> function is for the relay to open when the inverter turns off. AC 
> voltage on the load side of the breaker does not close the relay and 
> turn the inverter back on automatically.
> 
> Jason Szumlanski
> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
> 
> On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 9:49 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via 
> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
> 
> All sounds wrong to me. Call Midnite.
> 
> Typically there is a AC bypass mechanical switch that allows the gen to 
> bypass the inverter and power loads.
> 
> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
> [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
> e-mail  offgridsolar at sti.net
> text 209 813 0060
> 
> On 2025-05-12 9:29 am, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
> 
> Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like there is a flaw in the 
> logic for how generator integration works with this product. Unlike 
> some of the other AIOs, you can't put the generator on the Grid input 
> in an off-grid scenario. You have to use the Generator smart load 
> breaker, which isn't a dedicated generator input, but a programmable 
> circuit. This is problematic because it seemingly has a normally open 
> internal relay that closes only when the inverter is ON. At least, 
> that's how it seems to work in my limited experience.
> 
> Why is this a problem? If the battery capacity drops below the low 
> voltage cutoff, the inverter turns off. You have to turn the inverter 
> ON for the generator relay to close so you can charge the battery, but 
> since the battery is too low, the inverter won't turn on. You would 
> have to reprogram the inverter to drop the cutoff voltage/SOC below the 
> current battery state. For people who do not want to use AGS, or if AGS 
> fails to start the generator for any reason, getting the generator to 
> charge the battery manually is no easy task.
> 
> Moreover, turning the generator on manually when the inverter is in an 
> OFF state will not pass power to the loads, and will not turn the 
> inverter ON automatically. You have to get the inverter turned ON 
> somehow so that the generator power can pass through to the loads. And 
> since the startup sequence for this inverter is very quirky, 
> non-intuitive, and unreliable, that makes the problem even worse. I'm 
> not sure if you can even turn the inverter ON when there is generator 
> input and the battery is too low. I don't think you can because the 
> relay is open and the inverter doesn't even see generator voltage when 
> it is in an OFF state.
> 
> This seems like a serious oversight and a reason to go with one of the 
> other AIOs on the market. I believe the Sol-Ark 15K and EG4 18kPV will 
> both immediately power loads and start charging when the generator is 
> on, regardless of whether the generator is connected to the Grid or 
> Generator input. Any AC input immediately passes through to the loads. 
> This is because those inverters stay "on" when a low battery condition 
> is met, and they simply stop using the battery to invert power if the 
> battery conditions do not allow it, based on the settings.
> 
> The logic of the Midnite AIOs turning "off" when battery cutoff is met 
> and opening the generator relay doesn't make sense to me. Am I wrong 
> about how this works?
> 
> Jason Szumlanski
> Principal Solar Designer
> Florida Solar Design Group
> 
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