[RE-wrenches] Midnite AIO Generator Functionality
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
offgridsolar at sti.net
Mon May 12 12:15:46 PDT 2025
I just can't believe that Midnite would not have solar stay on after
LBCO !
Schneider and Outback always did this from a long way back to Trace.
Hear the water sound as it circles the drain?
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
[1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2] [1]
e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net
text 209 813 0060
On 2025-05-12 10:33 am, MDElectricSolar via RE-wrenches wrote:
> We have been using the Solark inverter for GTBB and off grid clients.
> In the case of low battery cut out the solar does stay alive in the
> background and will recharge the batteries when the sun comes out the
> next day and turn itself back on and provide AC power output.
>
> Michael D Nelson
> MD Electric & Solar, Inc.
> 707-684-0064 mobile
> 707-884-1862 office
> www.mdelectricsolar.com
> www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar
>
>> On May 12, 2025, at 10:13 AM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches
>> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> So the bypass switch gets the house power on, and I too always
> recommend a hard bypass switch. However, you still need a 48 v power
> supply to get the battery system back up, and that's becoming a serious
> pain in my aging backside. Until AIOs with Li+ batteries, lead acid
> would have enough voltage to get the charge controller to come back on,
> and eventually the customer could get the inverter back on too. No
> special trip out.
>
> We need an independent circuit that would sense array voltage, and wake
> up the battery, so it could take a charge: a backup battery for the
> offgrid battery. Without that, AIOs and Li+ batteries are not self
> healing like Lead Acid. We are going backwards fast, but with an
> amazing amount of new Chinese technology driving the jalopy in reverse.
> (Danger Will Robinson)
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
>
> On 5/12/2025 10:54 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> We always recommend a transfer switch to bypass the inverter and send
> generator power to the loads. Most clients take us up on it. For
> retrofits, sometimes there can be space limitations, however.
>
> As for the function of the AIO, there is no integrated mechanical
> bypass, and since there is an internal relay controlling the generator
> input (or smart load output on that breaker), I think the default
> function is for the relay to open when the inverter turns off. AC
> voltage on the load side of the breaker does not close the relay and
> turn the inverter back on automatically.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>
> On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 9:49 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via
> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> All sounds wrong to me. Call Midnite.
>
> Typically there is a AC bypass mechanical switch that allows the gen to
> bypass the inverter and power loads.
>
> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
> [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2] [1]
> e-mail offgridsolar at sti.net
> text 209 813 0060
>
> On 2025-05-12 9:29 am, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like there is a flaw in the
> logic for how generator integration works with this product. Unlike
> some of the other AIOs, you can't put the generator on the Grid input
> in an off-grid scenario. You have to use the Generator smart load
> breaker, which isn't a dedicated generator input, but a programmable
> circuit. This is problematic because it seemingly has a normally open
> internal relay that closes only when the inverter is ON. At least,
> that's how it seems to work in my limited experience.
>
> Why is this a problem? If the battery capacity drops below the low
> voltage cutoff, the inverter turns off. You have to turn the inverter
> ON for the generator relay to close so you can charge the battery, but
> since the battery is too low, the inverter won't turn on. You would
> have to reprogram the inverter to drop the cutoff voltage/SOC below the
> current battery state. For people who do not want to use AGS, or if AGS
> fails to start the generator for any reason, getting the generator to
> charge the battery manually is no easy task.
>
> Moreover, turning the generator on manually when the inverter is in an
> OFF state will not pass power to the loads, and will not turn the
> inverter ON automatically. You have to get the inverter turned ON
> somehow so that the generator power can pass through to the loads. And
> since the startup sequence for this inverter is very quirky,
> non-intuitive, and unreliable, that makes the problem even worse. I'm
> not sure if you can even turn the inverter ON when there is generator
> input and the battery is too low. I don't think you can because the
> relay is open and the inverter doesn't even see generator voltage when
> it is in an OFF state.
>
> This seems like a serious oversight and a reason to go with one of the
> other AIOs on the market. I believe the Sol-Ark 15K and EG4 18kPV will
> both immediately power loads and start charging when the generator is
> on, regardless of whether the generator is connected to the Grid or
> Generator input. Any AC input immediately passes through to the loads.
> This is because those inverters stay "on" when a low battery condition
> is met, and they simply stop using the battery to invert power if the
> battery conditions do not allow it, based on the settings.
>
> The logic of the Midnite AIOs turning "off" when battery cutoff is met
> and opening the generator relay doesn't make sense to me. Am I wrong
> about how this works?
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Principal Solar Designer
> Florida Solar Design Group
>
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