[RE-wrenches] Inverter ratings exceeding 25kw fir battery backup

Tue Feb 18 14:35:03 PST 2025

Don't even get me started on that. I have a library that wants a PV system
and batteries just to operate the elevators in the event of an outage. It's
120/208V. We are seriously looking at a Sol-Ark 30K.

On Tue, Feb 18, 2025, 5:27 PM Jerry Shafer <jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Elevators, it's all about the Elevators
>
> On Tue, Feb 18, 2025, 2:24 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Yes, but the PV system would need to be split, and inevitably, the
>> balance of PV and battery assigned to each distribution panel will not
>> match up well at times. A single battery and a single PV system serving the
>> entire property is what he really wants. Tesla is not the answer for that
>> today. I suggested converting the dual 200A service to a single 400A
>> service and using 4-6 Midnite AIOs, but that would get pretty messy.
>>
>> I do like the idea of having two wall connectors for this purpose. That
>> didn't cross my mind. I could possibly convince him to do a GW3/PW3 system
>> for one 200A panel and just a Powershare for the other panel (without PV
>> recharging). It depends on what is on each panel I suppose. The Powershare
>> is only 110A LRA, so it might not start up larger AC units without soft
>> start. The whole idea isn't too practical, but he wants to explore all
>> options.
>>
>> Also, as of today, Powershare does not work with the Gateway 3 with
>> Powerwall 3. They are working on an OTA firmware update to support this.
>> For now, it's just unidirectional charging from the Wall Connector. You
>> need the Gateway 3V for Powershare to work, but that does not work with
>> Powerwall 3, so it's a waiting game.
>>
>> Jason Szumlanski
>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 18, 2025 at 5:12 PM Matt Partymiller <matt at sesre.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Jason,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sounds like an interesting market.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A transfer switch is probably more expensive than two Tesla vehicle
>>> chargers, one for each system.  He just needs to remember which one to plug
>>> into and you just need to sell at least 4 PW3s, a couple gateways and
>>> you’re in business….
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Matt
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org> *On
>>> Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 18, 2025 5:05 PM
>>> *To:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>> *Cc:* Jason Szumlanski <jason at floridasolardesigngroup.com>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Inverter ratings exceeding 25kw fir
>>> battery backup
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Caution:* This email originated from outside SES. Do not click links
>>> or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is
>>> safe.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Not bragging, but many of my clients in this situation are billionaires
>>> or at least some sizable fraction of that. Naples is a pretty interesting
>>> place. They are usually not willing to compromise. On the three barrier
>>> islands where I do off-grid work, it always starts off as a few mini-splits
>>> and then it ends up being a few mini-splits and a 5-ton central. And then
>>> they install an electric hot tub unbeknownst to me. And then there are
>>> three electric golf carts that show up. And how can you enjoy the beach
>>> with 30 of your favorite friends without a large ice maker (on top of the
>>> undercabinet unit at the outdoor wetbar)? It never ends.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For on-grid homes with common 400A service (dual 200A panels) we focus
>>> on backing up one panel while installing enough PV to cover the total
>>> annual household usage, which is usually the request we get. They would
>>> love to back up both panels, but when confronted with the space
>>> requirements and battery capacity limitations imposed by NFPA 855, the
>>> conversation usually goes my way. As for the PV portion, we always hear
>>> that if they can't cover 100%, they don't see the point in doing it. That's
>>> why you end up with giant PV arrays with battery capacities more typical of
>>> a modest home.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I just spent an hour explaining to a customer with an existing 25kW
>>> Enphase system why he can't back up two 200A panels with Tesla Powerwall
>>> 3's (without serious drawbacks associated with splitting the PV and
>>> battery). He was also under the impression that he could use Powershare
>>> from his Cybertruck to back up both 200A panels simultaneously, or at least
>>> switch easily between them (I actually toyed with the idea of a transfer
>>> switch to accomplish this, but decided to just say no).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> These clients don't hear NO often. On the other hand, they are usually
>>> very smart and ask good questions. Most of them didn't get rich by accident.
>>>
>>>
>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>
>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>>>
>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 18, 2025 at 2:38 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via
>>> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Still Jason it seems very crazy! When I do energy for a home in your
>>> neck, usually offgrid, we use mini-splits and in a large home
>>>
>>> like you are referring with the grid, the same thing, use a split for a
>>> zone, like the kitchen and save all that wasted battery capacity backing up
>>> the whole home. They may be a bit uncomfortable without the grid but they
>>> can survive a hurricane outage,
>>>
>>> or longer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The strategy of not backing up it all does require the people to be
>>> reasonable and trainable. Very few central air systems are useable without
>>> spending 10's of thousands more. I think none unless the owner has more
>>> money than brains. Good for the economy I guess but all that lithium has to
>>> go to the dump someday.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Seems alot of lithium is going to the dump with all these companies
>>> building batteries and then going out of business also.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Alot of my calls are for systems that the installer has long gone out of
>>> business. The owner is clueless because they never had
>>>
>>> a clue about their power system. No Bueno for sure!  Stay Safe !
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar*
>>>
>>> *"we go where powerlines don't"*
>>>
>>> *   <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>https://offgridsolar1.com/ <https://offgridsolar1.com/>  <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>*
>>>
>>> *e-mail  offgridsolar at sti.net <offgridsolar at sti.net>*
>>>
>>> *text 209 813 0060*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2025-02-18 9:42 am, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>>
>>> Haha, we would not have the pool heater on a backup system, but many
>>> times people want a partial home backup system with whole home annual grid
>>> offset.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But for practical purposes around here, full-time residents often just
>>> trade pool heating for air conditioning based on season. If you size a
>>> backup system for central air conditioning, sometimes it is technically
>>> possible to heat the pool off-grid in the winter because the house load is
>>> otherwise a fraction of what it is in the summer months. In the winter, we
>>> sometimes see batteries full by 9:00 am and a lot of wasted solar energy.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>
>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>>>
>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 18, 2025 at 11:56 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via
>>> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Sure I get how important it is to electrically heat a pool in a power outage. 😉
>>>
>>> *Dave An,gelini Offgrid Solar*
>>>
>>> *"we go where powerlines don't"*
>>>
>>> *   <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>https://offgridsolar1.com/ <https://offgridsolar1.com/>  <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>*
>>>
>>> *e-mail  offgridsolar at sti.net <offgridsolar at sti.net>*
>>>
>>> *text 209 813 0060*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2025-02-18 8:05 am, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>>
>>> There are many 4,000 sq ft pool homes in my area with electric pool
>>> heating and electric everything else where 25kW would just cover the
>>> electric bill. Some larger homes around here can definitely require more.
>>> Florida Power & Light allows up to 50kW on 120/240V split phase service,
>>> but only if expected production does not exceed an estimated 115% of
>>> historical annual usage.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>
>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>>>
>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 17, 2025 at 12:58 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via
>>> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Why is there a need for more than 25KW for residential please? Just
>>> curious. In Nevada, 25KW is way into commercial.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar*
>>>
>>> *"we go where powerlines don't"*
>>>
>>> *   <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>https://offgridsolar1.com/ <https://offgridsolar1.com/>  <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>*
>>>
>>> *e-mail  offgridsolar at sti.net <offgridsolar at sti.net>*
>>>
>>> *text 209 813 0060*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2025-02-17 9:43 am, Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>>
>>> Greetings wrenches,
>>>
>>> In Pacific Power territory we are coming up against roadblocks with
>>> regards to whole house battery backup systems with inverter ratings higher
>>> than 25kw. Even when the generation capacity is below the 25kw residential
>>> limit, net metering applications are being rejected based on the inverter
>>> rating.. The inverter rating in these cases is sized to handle the
>>> customer's existing loads and will never export more than the 25kw limit
>>> dictated by Oregon PUC.  I am drafting a letter to Energy Trust, the state,
>>> etc. But am curious if anyone else gas had this problem or come up with a
>>> solution. I would appreciate to hear any experiences or similar
>>> interactions with PGE or PPL or even how this has worked in other
>>> jurisdictions, states, etc. Any input or support is greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tyrone Houck
>>>
>>> Oregon Solarworks LLC
>>>
>>> CCB #204937 LRT #076
>>>
>>> 541-787-1366
>>>
>>> tyrone at oregonsolarworks.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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