[RE-wrenches] RSS: Is it necessary?

[david quattro]

It seems anecdotal until it happens to you.
    My mention of civil disobedience has been answered clearly with a “No”
in this forum, and I'm fine to hear that.
   I'll clarify a few points as to why I honestly think RSD has been a huge
and costly mistake. I genuinely think RSD requirements should be terminated
immediately. If the technology were more robust and if it worked
consistently I wouldn't protest. But *all* the products I've tried have
been trouble.
   William, respectfully your analogy to seat belts is not an appropriate
comparison to Rapid Shutdown. Seat-belts were required in all new cars
starting in 1968 because there was statistical evidence supporting their
tremendous efficacy in saving human life. Currently seat belts save about
15,000 lives per year.
    Contrasting to RSD: was implemented because of the following paranoid
fairytale scenario - “A firefighter is on a burning solar roof in the
daytime, and wearing a metal axe at their hip. the poor guy/gal falls into
live solar glass, and shatters it. The fall is so forceful that the
heavy-duty fireman’s suit is punctured. Electricity conducts through the
axe blade, through the suit, contacts the skin, and a DC circuit is
completed through their body.”
   As far as I know, this has never happened once anywhere on earth. Let’s
be honest - this scenario has an incredibly low chance of ever happening in
all the future of humanity. So considering that RSD has never helped anyone
yet, and probably never will... How many fires can be attributed to RSD?
How much property damage has occurred because of these fires?
        The best path to safety for firefighters is by preventing fire
disasters in the first place.  Fires spread. Any fire that happens
endangers property owners, tenants, business owners, neighbors, shoppers,
bystanders, nearby forests, etc.  RSD manufacturers aren't doing a good job
right now, so we are seeing low quality unreliable electronics on the roof.
I will stick my neck out and admit that installers are not always perfect.
Humans make mistakes - sometimes in initial construction, and sometimes
during repair and maintenance (i.e. when hunting down failed RSD's which
happens far more than it should).
   At this time, these devices are not being designed to withstand reality.
When problems happen, manufacturers are quibbling. They ignore you until
you go away, or until you sue them.
    This level of "safety" is not important, and in fact RSD is causing
fires every year.





On Sat, Feb 15, 2025 at 11:38 AM William Miller <william at millersolar.com>
wrote:

> David, Ray:
>
>
>
> I have not had any problems with the Tigo RSS equipment I have installed
> and I have had minimal problems with optimizers and micro-inverters (which
> are also RSS equipment).  Apparently others have had failures.  We don’t
> know statically how serious this problem is—the posts here are purely
> anecdotal.
>
>
>
> We also have not heard from the other side of the debate: the fire
> fighters.
>
>
>
> Based on lack of verifiable information I can not personally conclude that
> RSS is all problem and no benefit.
>
>
>
> To declare that the concept is flawed because the equipment available is
> not reliable is like saying we should not be required to install airbags
> because a bad batch of them was manufactured.  We are seeing problems with
> the equipment needed to implement a safety requirement.  That observation
> does not logically conclude the safety requirement is not valuable.
>
>
>
> I hesitate to dismiss any safety requirement out of hand.  Safety systems
> are designed to save lives and protect from injury, and most of them do.  I
> am glad to have anti-lock brakes, smoke detectors and air bags.   I have
> also found it quite handy to initiate RSS to allow me to work more safely
> on solar circuits.
>
>
>
> Does anyone on this installers forum have contacts in the fire-response
> community that can comment on the their side of the issue?  If RSD is
> really necessary for safety, then I will do my best to install good
> equipment properly and hold manufacturers accountable for shoddy
> solutions.  If RSD is not that effective we need to discuss undoing the
> code requirements.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
>
> William Miller
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *david quattro via RE-wrenches
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 15, 2025 6:05 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Cc:* david quattro
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Tigo inverter experience
>
>
>
> RSD is the worst thing to happen to solar. Has anyone considered civil
> disobedience?
>
>     I wonder what would happen if all the installers banded together and
> refused, as a united industry ‘brotherhood.’ WE are the ones stuck with the
> bullshit in the aftermath.
>
>      I’m not being snarky here , this a genuine question to the group:
> Does anyone have *good* experience with RSD?   i.e. you’re really glad
> RSD was there, and you genuinely feel safer?  you’re glad and happy to
> comply with this code and you look forward to continuing to use RSD for the
> rest of your career?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 14, 2025 at 3:40 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> it seems silly that we are required to install these extra pieces of
> equipment for added "safety", that are actually a fire hazard on the roof.
> Just to survey again: how many homes have been saved by RSD?  How many fire
> fighters have actually actuated the RSD system, so that they could hack
> through the array to vent the roof?
>
> I think it should only be required if you have covered so much of the roof
> with PV, that the fire dept can't access uncovered roof to do their
> venting.  The whole premise of RSD is flawed.  IMHO, its just another
> effort to block the wider adoption of solar.
>
> When it comes to off grid, RSD causes such a decrease in reliability to
> amount to a decrease in safety, due to possible loss of communications,
> water, and heat.  Add the fire hazard and RSD is really not making our
> customers' lives better.
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
>
>
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