[RE-wrenches] Issues with HomeGrid

Fri Feb 14 14:49:49 PST 2025

Yeah, I see Zonna has some XP Pros at an insanely low price. I would have a
hard time selling this to a client knowing they are discontinued, however.

Jason Szumlanski
Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208

On Fri, Feb 14, 2025 at 4:00 PM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> It's true. I caught wind of this over the summer and switched to
> Victron/Discover to stay ahead of the curve. NAZ has some smoking deals on
> XWpros. Tech support is still available and has actually been really good.
> Not sure for how much longer
>
> On Fri, Feb 14, 2025 at 12:46 PM Kent via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Schneider's website is still there but it shows the Conext products as
>> being discontinued.
>>
>> Word is that a couple well know online retail companies bought up almost
>> all the inventory  except for some number of items that Schneider held for
>> warranty supply.
>>
>> Kent Osterberg
>> Blue Mountain Solar
>>
>>
>> On 2/14/2025 10:55 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>
>> This is the first time I'm hearing of that. The product line is still
>> listed on their website.
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 14, 2025, 1:28 PM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> They discontinued the Conext line. Mo more XWs
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 14, 2025 at 9:45 AM Glenn via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Whoa, what did I miss?
>>>> How is Schneider out of the picture?
>>>>
>>>> -Glenn
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 14, 2025 12:28, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches <
>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I think I have seen or heard of issues and failures with all of the Li
>>>> batteries at this point. Even my favorite, Discover. So then, what is most
>>>> important to me is good tech support and customer service. Discover has
>>>> been awesome. Midnite has been great too. Discover is releasing a
>>>> 16kwhr battery very soon. Most of my OG systems for several years have been
>>>> Schneider/Discover. With Schneider out of the picture, I started using more
>>>> Victron equipment with Discover batteries. Now there's the Midnite AIO and
>>>> Powerlo16s. I've done several GTBB systems and like that combo for that
>>>> application. Bill's post reminded me of the Rosie/Barcelona. I'm wondering
>>>> what the pro's and cons are between the AIO and R/B for off-grid. Not many
>>>> choices left these days
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 6:47 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I didn't initially realize they have the Powerflo16 outdoor
>>>> wallmount battery. I see you can get that capacity with it now. It's
>>>> disappointing that the stackable 5kWh Powerflo5 is limited to 80kWh (also
>>>> 16 units). Most of my clients build dedicated battery/inverter buildings
>>>> and need massive capacities to run their properties. I am trying to wrap my
>>>> head around how a multi-inverter Midnite AIO might be able to take
>>>> advantage of multiple un-paralleled battery banks to get around this
>>>> limitation. I'm waiting on a call from a Midnite rep to discuss this and
>>>> other questions I have.
>>>>
>>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 9:00 AM Amos Post via RE-wrenches <
>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Jason,
>>>>
>>>> It looks like the limit to Midnite PowerFlo is 257kwh.
>>>>  (16.076kwh/unit*16units in parallel).
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Amos
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        Amos Post
>>>>    Integrity Energy
>>>>   W 802.763.7023
>>>>    C 802.291.2188
>>>>     ienergyVT.com <http://www.ienergyvt.com>
>>>>         Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/integrityenergyllp?ref=hl>
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 12, 2025, at 5:22 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the feedback, Lou.
>>>>
>>>> Yep, they all seem to be borrowing the "delay and deny" tactic from the
>>>> insurance industry. It's an epidemic. Solar module manufacturers are doing
>>>> this, too (I'm looking at you, REC and Silfab, who have given me the D&D
>>>> treatment on two clear-cut warranty issues recently). I will continue to
>>>> give Enphase kudos for having readily available and mostly competent
>>>> customer service reps and a refreshingly liberal warranty process,
>>>> especially if you are experienced and know how to work the customer service
>>>> reps correctly to lead them to the right answer.
>>>>
>>>> Regarding the firmware issues on inverters and batteries, I have high
>>>> hopes for Midnite's AIO and MNPowerflo, given their claims that firmware
>>>> updates are tested, simultaneous, and seamless. This is a far cry from
>>>> Sol-Ark's new policy of refusing to do firmware updates unless a technician
>>>> is standing by on-site. It sounds like Midnite is listening, and the rest
>>>> are content with accepting mediocrity and pushing issues onto installers.
>>>>
>>>> And don't get me started about HomeGrid's pathetic app and registration
>>>> process... That little Gen 3 WiFi antenna gives you such high hopes, only
>>>> to end in huge disappointment. The app doesn't even seem to work.
>>>>
>>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 1:08 AM Lou Russo via RE-wrenches <
>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The current trend of manufacturers resisting issuing RMAs is
>>>> concerning. The amount of work they want us to do to confirm their problem
>>>> is staggering (Looking at you SolarEdge). With that said, we only have 7
>>>> systems with HomeGrid batteries. We have had only one issue with them and
>>>> it was firmware related. Unfortunately their firmware upgrade process is a
>>>> total kludge so much so that like Jason, I  just let them take over my
>>>> laptop and let them handle it. It really made me appreciate Discover's
>>>> software and firmware update process. We have a lot of Discover batteries
>>>> out there and like the EG4s you can just shut off the bad battery and move
>>>> on. In addition, if you have a battery module that is "dark start low" you
>>>> can actually "charge" it (it's more like spilling electricity) from a good
>>>> battery in the stack by turning off all the loads and charging sources
>>>> (i.e. the inverter) and all the battery modules except one good one and the
>>>> bad one. After you get the low one to a decent state of charge you can fire
>>>> everything up and put a good balance charge on the entire stack. I have
>>>> found their support to be great as well. They also just took their remote
>>>> battery monitoring out of beta so now you can see battery info directly
>>>> online. Which is nice. I am a big fan of having redundant monitoring so we
>>>> can "trust but verify" the data being reported by the various components. I
>>>> am still bummed they ended production of the 42-48-6650, the build quality
>>>> was ridiculously good. I am little leary of their replacement,
>>>> the 48-48-5120, but it seems to be doing fine in our installs. It has only
>>>> been a year or so, so the jury is still out. But all the same features I
>>>> described above apply.
>>>>
>>>> Aloha,
>>>>
>>>> Lou Russo
>>>> Owner
>>>> lou at spreesolarsystems.com
>>>> Office - 808 345 6762
>>>> Spree Solar Systems LLC
>>>> CT-34322
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2025 at 4:18 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> For what it's worth, they haven't said anything about internet
>>>> connectivity on these two systems I'm dealing with right now, and they are
>>>> both Gen 3.
>>>>
>>>> One site has a bunch of firmware discrepancies, and this is the site
>>>> with one module that has all cells low voltage. Not sure if it's even
>>>> recoverable. It's sitting at 39V.
>>>>
>>>> The other site has all the same firmware. This is the one I went to
>>>> today. One of 16 modules (2 full stacks) has one of 15 cells internally
>>>> that is low voltage. To me, that's a clear warranty swap situation, but
>>>> customer service wasn't having it. Disassemble the battery and charge it?
>>>> That's not a solution. It has been escalated. We will see what happens.
>>>>
>>>> Clearly we should be able to take these back to the shop for
>>>> diagnostics at a minimum and get them RMA'd. Requiring the purchase of a
>>>> Windows laptop and a battery charger is not ideal for sure.
>>>>
>>>> The only good thing I can say is customer service took over my PC today
>>>> remotely and ran diagnostics after installing the required software (which
>>>> isn't a fast process). I was expecting them to say, "yep it's toast and
>>>> we're sending you a new one, valued customer."
>>>>
>>>> No such luck.
>>>>
>>>> Jason
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2025, 6:48 PM Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches <
>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yep. And the 10 year warranty is only good if connected to the
>>>> internet. Firmware update of every module is crucial or else there will
>>>> likely be imbalances. You may be able to address it as 1 and shut of the
>>>> others and charge it through the bus but if it's cell voltage is too low it
>>>> may be an rma situation. I have had similar issues especially with gen 2.
>>>> Zero issues yet with any gen 3 modules but the internet thing really struck
>>>> a nerve as they only just recently got their internet monitoring
>>>> functional.. having to go back to every site is a serious pain just to
>>>> ensure what should be a basic warranty. Best of luck and feel free to
>>>> contact me offsite if you have any other questions I might be able to  help
>>>> with.
>>>> Tyrone Houck
>>>> Oregon Solarworks LLC
>>>> CCB #204937 LRT #076
>>>> 541-787-1366
>>>> tyrone at oregonsolarworks.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2025, 3:36 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Wrenches,
>>>>
>>>> I am regretting some HomeGrid Stack'd off-grid installations right now.
>>>> There is a major flaw in the way these function in an error state. For
>>>> those of you that don't know, these 48V batteries are stacked with a single
>>>> BMS on top, covering up to 8 batteries below. Each battery module has a
>>>> circuit breaker and dip switches to identify the battery communication
>>>> number and location in the stack. Each BMS can be paralleled to additional
>>>> stacks with communication cabling.
>>>>
>>>> The issue is when one battery module goes into an error state. What
>>>> will happen is that battery stack's BMS will recognize the error, and then
>>>> shut down the whole stack. This cascades to the other stacks and the system
>>>> shuts down - fails to deliver 48V at the output terminals on the BMS of any
>>>> stack.
>>>>
>>>> That is annoying, but what's even more problematic is you can't just
>>>> shut off the offending battery to bypass it. You need to physically change
>>>> all of the dip switches to bypass it and then reprogram the BMS to
>>>> re-recognize the new module count (after taking it out of parallel). This
>>>> is all very time consuming and requires the inverter system to be shut
>>>> down. Even if a battery is not in an error state, you can't just turn it
>>>> off. The whole system goes haywire.
>>>>
>>>> Once you have it bypassed, you can hook up a RS-232 cable (Mac users
>>>> need not apply) and use their software to gather diagnostics. Customer
>>>> service will then want to do additional diagnostics with the battery in the
>>>> stock, but that is not reasonable in and off-grid system where uptime is
>>>> critical. One of the faulty modules I am dealing with was diagnosed as one
>>>> of 15 cells with low voltage. The "solution" is to take it out of the stack
>>>> and charge it to 100% with an external charger.
>>>>
>>>> By the time I'm done with all of the diagnostic nonsense, I can almost
>>>> pay for a new battery with the lost labor. Isn't the whole idea for this
>>>> not to happen with balancing done automatically? It was suggested to me
>>>> that it didn't get charged to 100% often enough, and that is why it
>>>> happened. That isn't an acceptable reason for failure in an off-grid
>>>> system.
>>>>
>>>> I hate to say this, but EG4 has a far better 5kWh solution in this
>>>> respect. Each module has it's own BMS. When one fails, you can simply turn
>>>> off the circuit breaker and everything else continues to work. In fact, a
>>>> fault in one BMS doesn't take out the whole stack or stacks of battery
>>>> modules.
>>>>
>>>> Back to HomeGrid. When this happens, in my mind this is an automatic
>>>> RMA. They should be replacing these, no questions asked. Especially at
>>>> almost twice the price of EG4. They actually want me to disassemble the
>>>> case of the battery and charge it with an external charger (which I don't
>>>> have) directly from the terminals that are internal to the battery case.
>>>> Totally unacceptable. Whatever is inside that case is their problem in my
>>>> opinion.
>>>>
>>>> I am not selling anymore HomeGrid until I get satisfactory resolution
>>>> to these issues. EG4 isn't perfect, but I have actually had pretty good
>>>> success installing some that I sold and quite a few that consumers
>>>> purchased directly. And at almost half the price, it's easier to eat the
>>>> cost of a battery here and there for customer satisfaction.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone have similar issues with HomeGrid?
>>>>
>>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>> Florida Solar Design Group
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>
> --
>
> Michael Morningstar
>
>
> Morningstar Electric Inc
>
> PO Box 1494
>
> Mount Shasta, CA 96067
>
> 530-921-0560
>
> CSLB 1116835
>
> mjmorningstar at gmail.com
>
>
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