[RE-wrenches] Issues with HomeGrid

Fri Feb 14 09:28:19 PST 2025

I think I have seen or heard of issues and failures with all of the Li
batteries at this point. Even my favorite, Discover. So then, what is most
important to me is good tech support and customer service. Discover has
been awesome. Midnite has been great too. Discover is releasing a
16kwhr battery very soon. Most of my OG systems for several years have been
Schneider/Discover. With Schneider out of the picture, I started using more
Victron equipment with Discover batteries. Now there's the Midnite AIO and
Powerlo16s. I've done several GTBB systems and like that combo for that
application. Bill's post reminded me of the Rosie/Barcelona. I'm wondering
what the pro's and cons are between the AIO and R/B for off-grid. Not many
choices left these days

On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 6:47 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I didn't initially realize they have the Powerflo16 outdoor wallmount battery.
> I see you can get that capacity with it now. It's disappointing that the
> stackable 5kWh Powerflo5 is limited to 80kWh (also 16 units). Most of my
> clients build dedicated battery/inverter buildings and need massive
> capacities to run their properties. I am trying to wrap my head around how
> a multi-inverter Midnite AIO might be able to take advantage of multiple
> un-paralleled battery banks to get around this limitation. I'm waiting on
> a call from a Midnite rep to discuss this and other questions I have.
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 9:00 AM Amos Post via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi Jason,
>>
>> It looks like the limit to Midnite PowerFlo is 257kwh.
>>  (16.076kwh/unit*16units in parallel).
>>
>> Best,
>> Amos
>>
>>
>>        Amos Post
>>    Integrity Energy
>>   W 802.763.7023
>>    C 802.291.2188
>>     ienergyVT.com <http://www.ienergyvt.com>
>>         Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/integrityenergyllp?ref=hl>
>>
>> On Feb 12, 2025, at 5:22 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the feedback, Lou.
>>
>> Yep, they all seem to be borrowing the "delay and deny" tactic from the
>> insurance industry. It's an epidemic. Solar module manufacturers are doing
>> this, too (I'm looking at you, REC and Silfab, who have given me the D&D
>> treatment on two clear-cut warranty issues recently). I will continue to
>> give Enphase kudos for having readily available and mostly competent
>> customer service reps and a refreshingly liberal warranty process,
>> especially if you are experienced and know how to work the customer service
>> reps correctly to lead them to the right answer.
>>
>> Regarding the firmware issues on inverters and batteries, I have high
>> hopes for Midnite's AIO and MNPowerflo, given their claims that firmware
>> updates are tested, simultaneous, and seamless. This is a far cry from
>> Sol-Ark's new policy of refusing to do firmware updates unless a technician
>> is standing by on-site. It sounds like Midnite is listening, and the rest
>> are content with accepting mediocrity and pushing issues onto installers.
>>
>> And don't get me started about HomeGrid's pathetic app and registration
>> process... That little Gen 3 WiFi antenna gives you such high hopes, only
>> to end in huge disappointment. The app doesn't even seem to work.
>>
>> Jason Szumlanski
>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 1:08 AM Lou Russo via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> The current trend of manufacturers resisting issuing RMAs is concerning.
>>> The amount of work they want us to do to confirm their problem is
>>> staggering (Looking at you SolarEdge). With that said, we only have 7
>>> systems with HomeGrid batteries. We have had only one issue with them and
>>> it was firmware related. Unfortunately their firmware upgrade process is a
>>> total kludge so much so that like Jason, I  just let them take over my
>>> laptop and let them handle it. It really made me appreciate Discover's
>>> software and firmware update process. We have a lot of Discover batteries
>>> out there and like the EG4s you can just shut off the bad battery and move
>>> on. In addition, if you have a battery module that is "dark start low" you
>>> can actually "charge" it (it's more like spilling electricity) from a good
>>> battery in the stack by turning off all the loads and charging sources
>>> (i.e. the inverter) and all the battery modules except one good one and the
>>> bad one. After you get the low one to a decent state of charge you can fire
>>> everything up and put a good balance charge on the entire stack. I have
>>> found their support to be great as well. They also just took their remote
>>> battery monitoring out of beta so now you can see battery info directly
>>> online. Which is nice. I am a big fan of having redundant monitoring so we
>>> can "trust but verify" the data being reported by the various components. I
>>> am still bummed they ended production of the 42-48-6650, the build quality
>>> was ridiculously good. I am little leary of their replacement,
>>> the 48-48-5120, but it seems to be doing fine in our installs. It has only
>>> been a year or so, so the jury is still out. But all the same features I
>>> described above apply.
>>>
>>> Aloha,
>>>
>>> Lou Russo
>>> Owner
>>> lou at spreesolarsystems.com
>>> Office - 808 345 6762
>>> Spree Solar Systems LLC
>>> CT-34322
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2025 at 4:18 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> For what it's worth, they haven't said anything about internet
>>>> connectivity on these two systems I'm dealing with right now, and they are
>>>> both Gen 3.
>>>>
>>>> One site has a bunch of firmware discrepancies, and this is the site
>>>> with one module that has all cells low voltage. Not sure if it's even
>>>> recoverable. It's sitting at 39V.
>>>>
>>>> The other site has all the same firmware. This is the one I went to
>>>> today. One of 16 modules (2 full stacks) has one of 15 cells internally
>>>> that is low voltage. To me, that's a clear warranty swap situation, but
>>>> customer service wasn't having it. Disassemble the battery and charge it?
>>>> That's not a solution. It has been escalated. We will see what happens.
>>>>
>>>> Clearly we should be able to take these back to the shop for
>>>> diagnostics at a minimum and get them RMA'd. Requiring the purchase of a
>>>> Windows laptop and a battery charger is not ideal for sure.
>>>>
>>>> The only good thing I can say is customer service took over my PC today
>>>> remotely and ran diagnostics after installing the required software (which
>>>> isn't a fast process). I was expecting them to say, "yep it's toast and
>>>> we're sending you a new one, valued customer."
>>>>
>>>> No such luck.
>>>>
>>>> Jason
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2025, 6:48 PM Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches <
>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yep. And the 10 year warranty is only good if connected to the
>>>>> internet. Firmware update of every module is crucial or else there will
>>>>> likely be imbalances. You may be able to address it as 1 and shut of the
>>>>> others and charge it through the bus but if it's cell voltage is too low it
>>>>> may be an rma situation. I have had similar issues especially with gen 2.
>>>>> Zero issues yet with any gen 3 modules but the internet thing really struck
>>>>> a nerve as they only just recently got their internet monitoring
>>>>> functional.. having to go back to every site is a serious pain just to
>>>>> ensure what should be a basic warranty. Best of luck and feel free to
>>>>> contact me offsite if you have any other questions I might be able to  help
>>>>> with.
>>>>> Tyrone Houck
>>>>> Oregon Solarworks LLC
>>>>> CCB #204937 LRT #076
>>>>> 541-787-1366
>>>>> tyrone at oregonsolarworks.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Feb 11, 2025, 3:36 PM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Wrenches,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am regretting some HomeGrid Stack'd off-grid installations right
>>>>>> now. There is a major flaw in the way these function in an error state. For
>>>>>> those of you that don't know, these 48V batteries are stacked with a single
>>>>>> BMS on top, covering up to 8 batteries below. Each battery module has a
>>>>>> circuit breaker and dip switches to identify the battery communication
>>>>>> number and location in the stack. Each BMS can be paralleled to additional
>>>>>> stacks with communication cabling.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The issue is when one battery module goes into an error state. What
>>>>>> will happen is that battery stack's BMS will recognize the error, and then
>>>>>> shut down the whole stack. This cascades to the other stacks and the system
>>>>>> shuts down - fails to deliver 48V at the output terminals on the BMS of any
>>>>>> stack.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is annoying, but what's even more problematic is you can't just
>>>>>> shut off the offending battery to bypass it. You need to physically change
>>>>>> all of the dip switches to bypass it and then reprogram the BMS to
>>>>>> re-recognize the new module count (after taking it out of parallel). This
>>>>>> is all very time consuming and requires the inverter system to be shut
>>>>>> down. Even if a battery is not in an error state, you can't just turn it
>>>>>> off. The whole system goes haywire.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Once you have it bypassed, you can hook up a RS-232 cable (Mac users
>>>>>> need not apply) and use their software to gather diagnostics. Customer
>>>>>> service will then want to do additional diagnostics with the battery in the
>>>>>> stock, but that is not reasonable in and off-grid system where uptime is
>>>>>> critical. One of the faulty modules I am dealing with was diagnosed as one
>>>>>> of 15 cells with low voltage. The "solution" is to take it out of the stack
>>>>>> and charge it to 100% with an external charger.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By the time I'm done with all of the diagnostic nonsense, I can
>>>>>> almost pay for a new battery with the lost labor. Isn't the whole idea for
>>>>>> this not to happen with balancing done automatically? It was suggested to
>>>>>> me that it didn't get charged to 100% often enough, and that is why it
>>>>>> happened. That isn't an acceptable reason for failure in an off-grid
>>>>>> system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hate to say this, but EG4 has a far better 5kWh solution in this
>>>>>> respect. Each module has it's own BMS. When one fails, you can simply turn
>>>>>> off the circuit breaker and everything else continues to work. In fact, a
>>>>>> fault in one BMS doesn't take out the whole stack or stacks of battery
>>>>>> modules.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Back to HomeGrid. When this happens, in my mind this is an automatic
>>>>>> RMA. They should be replacing these, no questions asked. Especially at
>>>>>> almost twice the price of EG4. They actually want me to disassemble the
>>>>>> case of the battery and charge it with an external charger (which I don't
>>>>>> have) directly from the terminals that are internal to the battery case.
>>>>>> Totally unacceptable. Whatever is inside that case is their problem in my
>>>>>> opinion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not selling anymore HomeGrid until I get satisfactory resolution
>>>>>> to these issues. EG4 isn't perfect, but I have actually had pretty good
>>>>>> success installing some that I sold and quite a few that consumers
>>>>>> purchased directly. And at almost half the price, it's easier to eat the
>>>>>> cost of a battery here and there for customer satisfaction.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyone have similar issues with HomeGrid?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>>>> Florida Solar Design Group
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-- 

Michael Morningstar

Morningstar Electric Inc

PO Box 1494

Mount Shasta, CA 96067

530-921-0560

CSLB 1116835

mjmorningstar at gmail.com
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