[RE-wrenches] More Issues with Parallel Sol-Ark 15K System

Sun Nov 10 10:33:23 PST 2024

Same with the Midnite AIO. They are very explicit in the instruction
manual.

On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 9:23 AM James Jarvis via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> There isn't. It's a cultural thing. All of our Japanese machines have
> completely different grounding schemes that they want because that is
> standard in Japan. That's my two cents
>
> thank you,
>
> -James Jefferson Jarvis
> APRS World, LLC
> +1-507-454-2727
>
> (apologies for the brevity and spelling...from my phone)
>
> On Sun, Nov 10, 2024, 11:02 AM Jay via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Can someone/s offer up any solid electrical engineering reason for that?
>>
>> Makes no sense to me.
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> On Nov 10, 2024, at 9:12 AM, david quattro via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> SolArk tech support told us that the PV array ground shouldn’t land on
>> the inverter ground bar. But instead should be run to its own local
>> electrode.  or if you're grid tied it can land on the ground bar at the
>> Main AC
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 10, 2024 at 6:27 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> This is very valuable information. The homeowner sourced these four
>>> inverters from someone else before I got involved. Three of the four
>>> inverters have a Savant sticker on the front of them. The one without the
>>> Savant sticker is NOT the one that is having the problem, but it is
>>> adjacent to it. The stickerless inverter is #2 (first slave), but the
>>> problem inverter is #3 (second slave). I am assuming the three with the
>>> stickers are the same (#1, #3, and #4), but perhaps the one without the
>>> sticker has different hardware. I will do a visual inspection the next time
>>> I am out there.
>>>
>>>
>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 9, 2024 at 4:33 PM Tyrone Houck via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> We've noticed a compatability issue with the limitless 15k units and
>>>> the newest incarnation of the same(limitless 15k) inverter(additional
>>>> circuitry in the wiring compartment associated with the pv inputs is the
>>>> one way I'm aware of to tell the difference)..the older units and the newer
>>>> units don't seem to play nice with each other though they work fine
>>>> independently. The problem we had was one was throwing an arc fault error
>>>> and the other parallel faulting in response. The ultimate fix was replacing
>>>> the older one with a newer one to match. Not sure if that's what is
>>>> happening at your site but after extensive troubleshooting our conclusion
>>>> was one inverter was sensing something in the other inverter. May be worth
>>>> checking to see if they are all the exact same hardware.
>>>> Good luck.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Nov 9, 2024, 8:46 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I agree with that diagnosis. I did a visual inspection of the boards
>>>>> and ribbon cables, and everything seems to be okay. It's strange that the
>>>>> inverter worked fine in standalone mode. That points to something in the
>>>>> paralleling circuitry or software. Getting past Tier 1 tech support can be
>>>>> agonizing, but at least I have an established case now. As a customer
>>>>> service gesture, I'm prepared to take a new unit off my shelf and fight
>>>>> with Sol-Ark later to get this system back up and running as the quad setup
>>>>> that my customer purchased. This should have been a clear cut RMA by Tier 1
>>>>> support in my opinion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
>>>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
>>>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
>>>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Nov 9, 2024 at 11:33 AM Jerry Shafer <jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jason,
>>>>>> Everything points to a internal issue maybe with a CT, ribbon
>>>>>> connection or just a bad board, regardless a new inverter is the key and
>>>>>> solark should really want to investigate the issue themselves anyway.
>>>>>> Fun times
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 9, 2024, 7:16 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>>>>>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wrote in another thread about an off-grid quad Sol-Ark system that
>>>>>>> was shutting down due to parallel stop when one of the four inverters
>>>>>>> experienced a DC PV fault, and how that shutdown is far from ideal. The
>>>>>>> same system is down once again, this time due to an AC fault code.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The homeowner started getting repeated F18 and F34 AC overcurrent
>>>>>>> faults on one of the slave inverters. This, in turn, shut the entire system
>>>>>>> down due to parallel stop faults (F41). None of the other units had AC
>>>>>>> overcurrent faults, and the load is nowhere near requiring all four
>>>>>>> inverters for even the most demanding circumstances. It was designed this
>>>>>>> way for redundancy, which I am quickly finding out is not Sol-Ark's strong
>>>>>>> suit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To diagnose the issue remotely, I had the owner turn off all four
>>>>>>> load breakers, all DC PV input, and the AC microinverter input on the GEN
>>>>>>> terminals. I had them restart everything (several times). Every time, the
>>>>>>> same inverter would have repeated AC overcurrent faults, and the others
>>>>>>> would have parallel system faults. Since there were no loads connected by
>>>>>>> virtue of the load breakers being open, I suspected this had to be an
>>>>>>> internal fault.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I went to the site, and Sol-Ark Tier 1 tech support had me shut off
>>>>>>> all inverters and take the suspect inverter out of parallel operation mode.
>>>>>>> As a standalone master it was able to power up and support the entire house
>>>>>>> load without issue. Then we reprogrammed it for parallel operation again
>>>>>>> and turned everything back on. We were unable to stay on the phone long
>>>>>>> enough to determine if this was successful, but ultimately, the fault
>>>>>>> returned. I was told to call and ask for Tier 2 next time if it happened
>>>>>>> again, which I intend to do on Monday. At this point, the issue can only be
>>>>>>> internal to the unit, and I intend to demand warranty replacement of
>>>>>>> suspect components or the whole unit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I had to get the system running, so I wanted to take the bad
>>>>>>> inverter out of the parallel system. I was hoping that simply shutting it
>>>>>>> down would work. This is the third of 4 inverters in the Modbus chain. When
>>>>>>> turning it off completely (all AC and DC switches disconnected), the 4th
>>>>>>> inverter would fault, presumably because the Modbus signal was not being
>>>>>>> relayed, but inverters #1 and #2 worked fine. However, I wanted #4 to also
>>>>>>> continue working while taking #3 out of service. So then I turned on the
>>>>>>> battery disconnect for #3 but left it in the off mode by not pressing the
>>>>>>> on/off button, thinking that it would allow relay of the Modbus signal from
>>>>>>> #2 to #4. That allowed the system to work momentarily, but then everything
>>>>>>> faulted out due to parallel system stop. In other words, I was going to
>>>>>>> have to physically take #3 out of the Modbus daisy chain to make this work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course, I didn't have a long enough Cat5 cable with me, nor a
>>>>>>> Cat5 splice connector. So I had to rig something, which I did successfully
>>>>>>> to jumper from #2 to #4. But when I turned everything back on, #4 still
>>>>>>> would not work. I eventually realized that you have to change the Modbus
>>>>>>> address from 04 to 03 in the settings. Apparently, the addresses need to be
>>>>>>> sequential for it to work. Once I did this, I was able to get the system up
>>>>>>> and running again as a triple-inverter parallel setup. No faults were
>>>>>>> observed. So the theory was proven that #3 has an issue internally.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, bottom line, I am disappointed at how one inverter fault
>>>>>>> takes down the whole paralleled system, and also how taking a faulted
>>>>>>> inverter out of the system requires physical and programming changes.
>>>>>>> Turning it off should be sufficient. This is a very poor way to implement a
>>>>>>> parallel system that should provide the peace of mind that redundancy
>>>>>>> implies. Now I have a customer who thought they were getting a system with
>>>>>>> failsafe redundancy that actually requires a service call every time one of
>>>>>>> the paralleled units decides it does not want to play nicely with others.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>>>>> Florida Solar Design Group
>>>>>>>
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-- 

Michael Morningstar

Morningstar Electric Inc

PO Box 1494

Mount Shasta, CA 96067

530-921-0560

CSLB 1116835

mjmorningstar at gmail.com
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