[RE-wrenches] Discover AES explosion

Tue May 28 15:12:12 PDT 2024

Might want to wait until the FA is done. A failed BMS possible, remember 
we are talking about adding electronics into batteries that never had 
them offgrid. I was talking with the Engineer (different issue) at AES 
on the rack system and he said one battery is still good and they can 
get the data that might help here. The rack uses a different LFP cell 
type BTW

Many of my offgrid clients are so remote it is a blessing the the fire 
guys even showed up.

_ I am concerned as over 50 clients use the 6650. Discover has been a 
leader in spelling out the dangers. Some info below._

The 7.4KWH model 6650 had these CERTIFICATION STANDARDS
IEC 62133
UL 1973
UL 9540
UL 2271
SGIP
CEC
CE
UN 38.3

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
    [1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2]  [1]
e-mail  offgridsolar at sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2024-05-28 2:15 pm, Vincent Jolissaint via RE-wrenches wrote:

> Michael, it is super scary to hear these stories and they are a good 
> reminder that Li-ion technology still has risks. I am glad the 
> manufacturer is taking care of you, but it is concerning to see that 
> the battery safety systems allowed the thermal runaway event.
> 
> Hopefully, the fire department coded the incident response correctly, 
> so the powers that be can understand this was a li-ion thermal event 
> from a home energy storage system.
> 
> As more and more ESS systems enter the market, getting a recent UL 9540 
> listing is important. The earlier versions of the standard were less 
> robust, but the current edition of 9540 requires UL 9540A testing to be 
> performed for indoor installations to establish minimum room size based 
> on 25% LFL.
> 
> It looks like there will soon be a UL 9540B requirement, and the 
> outline of investigation is just circulating. I see one Discover 
> datasheet shows UL 9540 listing, but I didn't do research into what 
> edition they tested to, or if this was the same unit that exploded.
> 
> The issue with the 9540A thermal runaway testing is it might not have 
> tested for this failure mode, but the conditions you describe are very 
> similar to what 9540B intends to test.
> 
> I know many feel LFP is a safer battery than NMC or other li-ion 
> chemistries, but these events show that the LFP batteries do fail, and 
> when they do, they can cause large sudden deflagration events without 
> other warning. An NMC battery pack buy contrast will usually fail by 
> burning until it is consumed, which might at least set off a smoke or 
> heat detector.
> 
> Were there any fire detection measures in the shed such as a heat or 
> smoke detector?
> 
> Vince Jolissaint | Director of CAD Services
> 
> 2557 Wyandotte Street | Mountain View, CA  94043
> Office: 650.938.9574 | Email: vincentj at cobaltpower.com
> 
>> Date: Mon, 27 May 2024 20:40:00 -0700
>> From: Michael Morningstar <mjmorningstar at gmail.com>
>> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES exposion
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAPWhfaegnz5vjMkFLffeA6my+cDJQde-UuaBg1_mDyUiLobeUg at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> Hey Everybody,
>> 
>> I wanted to circle back on the Discover AES explosion that I reported 
>> a few
>> weeks ago. As far as we know, there was a thermal runaway situation. 
>> Gas
>> from the battery filled the power room and then ignited causing an
>> explosion. It was hot enough that anything plastic melted. The steel 
>> man
>> door blew off its hinges. Beyond that, we are still trying to figure 
>> out
>> why it happened.
>> 
>> For now, what I want to say is that Discover has been awesome. The VP, 
>> CEO
>> and crew responded immediately. They are paying for the cleanup of the
>> building by a specialized remediation company, offered to pay to have 
>> the
>> building rebuilt, 2nd day shipped new rack mount batteries and a 
>> pre-built
>> Schneider system to the site. Are paying a plumbing contractor to 
>> replace
>> all of the plumbing (booster pump, pressure tank and significant 
>> treatment
>> equipment. Flying Mike Wight (ace off-grid installer and
>> applications engineer for Discover) to the site for the rebuild. And
>> reimbursing me for my involvement. This with no coercion or dawdling 
>> about.
>> As soon as they found out, they were on it. I spoke with the VP and 
>> CEO and
>> they genuinely care about my clients and want to do right for the sake 
>> of
>> doing right, not to avoid litigation. Tell me of another RE company, 
>> or any
>> company for that matter that would respond this way.
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Michael Morningstar
>> 
>> Morningstar Electric Inc
>> 
>> PO Box 1494
>> 
>> Mount Shasta, CA 96067
>> 
>> 530-921-0560
>> 
>> CSLB 1116835
>> 
>> mjmorningstar at gmail.com
> 
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Links:
------
[1] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
[2] https://offgridsolar1.com/
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