[RE-wrenches] EG4 Equipment

Sun Feb 18 12:58:09 PST 2024

Carl,
Thanks for the update. That is encouraging!
My other major concern at this point is all the very negative comments to
be found on the web about Signature's horrible, very bad, no good Tech
Support and service.  It is true that the internet is littered with
disgruntled comments about anything and everything, but many of these
stories (including ones on the wrenches) are fairly specific and
disheartening.  I assume by the fact that you continue to install their
batteries, that that has not been your experience?

Howie Michaelson

On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 3:16 PM Carl Hansen via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi Howie,
>
>  I've continued to install EG4 LL V2 batteries for clients, I originally
> purchased a bank of EG4 V1's for my own system to experiment with before
> recommending them to clients, I quickly ended up with 7 clients with them
> and all the installs are performing without issues, these are all OFF GRID
> without comms between the battery and inverter, I'm keeping them above
> freezing with insulated battery box's and heating pads when necessary,
> Cooling may be more of an issue in some outdoor shed installs because of
> summer heat in central N.M.
>
>  One thing that came up that had me concerned was Signature solar Techs
> started recommending 3 or 4 deep discharge cycles, down to 20% SOC when
> commissioning the batteries, this was so that the BMS could learn what the
> normal operating range would be for the battery as to prevent early low
> voltage shut down events, I thought this was going to be too burdensome for
> off grid clients or for me,  a few clients didn't mind doing that
> commissioning recommendation but most haven't done it and there hasn't been
> any issues.
>
>  The EG4 LL V2 has a ten year prorated warranty, it has UL ratings, it has
> fire suppression pads in them that will melt down on top of the battery at
> high temps if they are mounted in a flat orientation, I have a few clients
> with the EG4 rack cabinet but most are mounted face up in the original
> insulated L16 or Surrette industrial cell battery box's, Signature solar
> has said this orientation will not void the warranty or effect operation of
> the battery.
>
>   Carl Hansen
>
>   Hansen&Sun Electric  505 470-0770
>
>
> On 2024-02-18 10:34 AM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
>
> All,
>
> Thanks for the thoughts and feedback about EG4 and Lithium in general. I'm
> disappointed to see the overall negative feedback about EG4, but not overly
> surprised. I was hoping to hear from folks who previously had decent things
> to say about them (E.G. Peter Giroux, Carl Hansen) would chime in with
> updated reviews. I have been seduced into using relatively new products
> that promised to improve upon "sliced bread" before, only to more times
> than not, end up fruI'strated with wasted time and reputation.
>
> For our work in VT, LiFePO4 batteries, so far, are enough of an
> improvement over lead acid (particularly for Off-Grid), that if the client
> is willing to spend the money, I encourage them to go that route.  There
> are certainly plenty of on going issues with many of these relatively new
> products, some larger headaches than I'm happy about. On balance however,
> my calculus leans heavily toward advantage Lithium. We can make
> work-arounds for most of the immediate problems, and their documentable
> efficiency and low maintenance (along with fewer holes in my clothes) win
> the argument for me.
>
> I have yet to see a BMS failure, but I'm sure I'll have the chance to
> solve that problem. I'm also annoyed that the inverter sales teams have
> chosen to market the new hybrid inverters as compatible with Lead-Acid,
> because as has been noted, as they currently are configured, Lead-Acid
> management has been a mostly a slipshod afterthought. There are several
> other areas they will need to focus before I would deem the
> ready-for-prime-time. However, as best I can tell, there is intense
> competition for market share right now, so if enough of the installer base
> pushes for these necessary changes, they will do there best to accommodate
> us.
>
> The areas I see needing significant improvements:
>
>    - Rock solid BMS and and battery-inverter communication (standard
>    industry wide protocols?)
>    - True Lead-Acid programming capabilities
>    - More finesse with the AGS controls
>
> And, again, if anyone has recent positive reports about EG4 equipment, I'd
> be happy to hear about them on or off list.
>
> Howie Michaelson
> Sun Catcher
>
> On Sat, Feb 17, 2024 at 1:16 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Drake:
>>
>>
>>
>> I prefer the UnigyII VRLA batteries.  Full river 2 volt L-16s are pretty
>> good and they allow one string configuration in larger AH settings.
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree that as features grow so does complexity.  However there is no
>> substitute for good remote monitoring and control.  I can understand much
>> better the operation of systems with easy access to historic data and I
>> save a butt-load of driving.  I wish the Outback and Sunny Island files
>> could be obtained remotely for better analysis.
>>
>>
>>
>> William
>>
>>
>>
>> Miller Solar
>>
>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>>
>> 805-438-5600
>>
>> www.millersolar.com
>>
>> CA Lic. 773985
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
>> Behalf Of *Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches
>> *Sent:* Saturday, February 17, 2024 9:43 AM
>> *To:* RE-wrenches
>> *Cc:* drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] EG4 Equipment
>>
>>
>>
>> I fully agree that off grid solar has taken a major downturn. Once the
>> equipment became software based, the reliability dropped. Sure, there are
>> nice features available with these cyber enhanced systems, but the cost in
>> reliability makes being energy independent off the grid hard to accomplish.
>>
>> There are good reports on Samlex products. Has anyone tried their new
>> 120/240 split phase units? Are they stack-able yet?
>>
>> As far as batteries go, I'm pretty much in the Lead Head club, especially
>> for off grid. That being said, lead acid batteries, especially AGMs have
>> gotten really expensive and it seems the quality isn't what it used to be.
>>
>> What is the best AGM battery these days?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Drake
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2024-02-16 17:02, Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>
>> We gave EG4 and Signature another chance after promises from their dealer
>> oriented support department that we could expect better service from them.
>> We had an EG4 BMS crap out a couple months ago after only a few months.
>> Lots and lots of communications with Signature and we still don't have a
>> BMS or replacement battery. It's been a shit show with them. I think we are
>> going to remove them and install 3rd party BMS's and find some use for
>> them. Maybe donate them. We've only had luck with Schneider/Discover
>> pairings in closed loop. A large system we did with Sol-Arks never really
>> worked in Closed loop, despite Discover coming to the site. Most likely
>> it's a Sol-Ark issue, but we've reached Sol-Arks technical expertise
>> limits. Even with Schneider/AES, there have been some issues that are
>> causing me to re-consider Li for offgrid. I just had a conversation this
>> morning with a long time off-grid pro and he said the same thing. It used
>> to be, we'd install a wet lead acid bank and then ten years would pass
>> before hearing from the client when it was time for another bank. Sometimes
>> fifteen years. Our call backs with systems over the last ten years, first
>> with a decline in equipment quality and then the switch to Li are costing
>> us too much money and causing a lot of heartburn for our clients. Rant Over
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 12:57 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>>
>>
>> I've searched the archives for info pertaining to EG4 inverters and
>> batteries. The comments have been mostly positive.  I have stayed away from
>> EG4 until now in part, for the reason the Michael Morningstar suggested
>> last June - that is, they seemed very oriented to the DIY market and not
>> real serious contenders in the lasting marketplace. However, I was at RE+
>> Boston this week and was quite surprised to see that the EG4 18k inverter
>> is, for all I could tell, identical to the Fortress Envy 12k, in both
>> physical layout as well as menu structure. I have very limited experience
>> with the Envy (having just installed my 1st one last week, in order to
>> compare it to the Sol-Ark 15). I don't have any thoughts about it yet,
>> except that the font on the screen is quite small and the opening screen is
>> not as intuitive as the Sol-Ark, but that might just take familiarizing
>> myself more to the Envy (and/or the EG4).
>>
>>
>>
>> My question is, for folks who have had either the Envy or the EG4
>> inverters installed for a decent period of time, what is your current take
>> on their functionality, durability, and for the EG4, the quality of
>> support? Also, what experience have folks had similarly with the EG4 LLI
>> batteries? I'm not unhappy with the Sol-Ark or in general the Fortress
>> eVault Max battery, but there are some attractive things about the Envy and
>> potentially the EG4 18k, and the price point and seemingly smart
>> configuration of the EG4 LLI batteries are certainly eye-catching.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm also currently starting to lean toward using Lithium batteries and
>> inverters from the same manufacturer, as I'm growing weary of the
>> mismatching firmware updates that are causing somewhat frequent issues
>> between the 2 components. Although the inverter/battery integrated units
>> (i.e. Sonen, Tesla, etc.) don't seem ideal, since the market is so volatile
>> at the moment. If one component fails, I'd like the option to replace it
>> with a different brand without having to replace the other component as
>> well. Using the same manu doesn't necessarily cut down the problems, but it
>> certainly will help in the troubleshooting process by hopefully having less
>> of the "not my problem" or "we haven't seen that problem" responses from
>> tech support.
>>
>>
>>
>> I really don't like making forays into bleeding-edge technologies, so I'm
>> hoping to gain some experienced insight.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Howie Michaelson
>>
>> Sun Catcher
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
>> other:
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> Michael Morningstar
>>
>>
>>
>> Morningstar Electric
>>
>> PO Box 1494
>>
>> Mount Shasta, CA 96067
>>
>> 530-921-0560
>>
>> mjmorningstar at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
>> other:
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
>> other:
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
> other:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20240218/cec8ca91/attachment.htm>