[RE-wrenches] EG4 Equipment

Sat Feb 17 12:40:33 PST 2024

To this point I'm not aware of a lead battery that is compliant to 9540 or
1973...    we are still trying to work out the kinks of these UL codes.
 This what happens when people try to blanket fix a problem with one
technology and apply it across the board without a full understanding of
the different chemistries that are out there.

On Sat, Feb 17, 2024, 12:33 PM jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> A number of people have mentioned strict code compliance.
> How are lead batteries dealing with this?
>
> thanks
> jay
>
> On Feb 17, 2024, at 12:27 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> Chris;
>
> I was definitely moving to the LFP camp for off grid for all the same
> reasons you mentioned, but I've just had too much trouble, so I'm heading
> back to lead acid for now.  I missed the acid burned jeans, its a
> "look".....
>
> Seriously, you mentioned customers coming back to a lead acid battery at
> 16 v; how about a $12k LFP bank doing the same thing?  At least lead acid
> can be recovered to some extent.  I'm not married to either platform, I
> just want to spend my customers' money on the most reliable solution, and
> after having both temperature related issues, and failed BMS, lead acid is
> back.  Maybe when my current lead acid installations need to be replaced,
> LFP will have solved 2 very important issues:
> 1) More Robust BMS boards that can be field replaced.
> 2) On board heating system for below freezing conditions.
>
> I think we're close, but definitely not there.
>
> Also, with all the mention of various UL listings, regulation needs to
> evolve to differentiate between LiFePO4 and other Li+ chemistries.  LiFePO4
> is inherently much safer, but we're being forced to comply with all the
> same regulations as the less stable, more energy dense chemistries.
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> On 2/16/2024 8:44 PM, Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> Howie,
>
> The EG4 18K and the Fortress Envy are both made by the same manufacturer,
> LuxPower. Google the LXP 12K and it will all make sense.  I can’t speak for
> EG4, but I know that Fortress has progressed from simply white labeling
> this unit to doing a significant amount of programming and additional
> integration, specifically with regards to their monitoring platform.
>
> Personally, I have always had a skeptical approach with EG4. The EX line
> was chintzy at best. Every prospective client I have crossed paths with
> that has called out EG4 equipment thinks they know more and want it cheaper
> because they watched a few YouTube videos where unqualified DIY hacks free
> air conductors. I don’t want to write EG4 off completely, and am interested
> in their PowerPro battery. But with the ebb and flow of battery
> manufacturers, I wouldn’t be surprised if they weren’t around in 5 years. I
> feel differently about Fortress Power and although they have been a little
> overactive in the inverter market, I do believe that they are well
> intentioned and that their products and business are solid.
>
> There has been some recent LFP bashing, and respectfully, I will agree to
> disagree. Early iterations of LFP had frequent issues with BMS and cell
> failure, but all in all, LFP has been a shining star in off-grid
> applications. I say this having installed 100+ eVault Max 18.5 in strictly
> off-grid scenarios. Sure there are phone calls and necessary firmware
> updates (however never a single BMS failure with the eVault Max), but I’m
> not having the heartbreaking conversations of “when we came back from
> vacation our 48v lead acid battery bank was at 15 volts”. I don’t like
> those phone calls. I also don't like holes in my pants and shirts or calls
> that CO monitors are alarming because of dead vent fans. I’m not dying on
> the hill of LFP, but I will say that I am firmly in support of the
> measurable improvements they have made for my customers. Paired with remote
> monitoring, the truck rolls a lot less.
>
> Kindly,
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 16, 2024 at 4:33 PM Dan Fink via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> The issue I'm having with EG4 specifically and Signature Solar in general
>> is a scattershot approach to UL and NRTL listings. Those listings may not
>> be important to various DIY folks of varying levels of "git-er-done," but
>> listings are critical for my business. Some products they sell are Listed
>> per NEC, some are not, and some EG4 are listed, some are not. I recently
>> contacted Signature Solar regarding their EG4 rack mount ESS modules and
>> did not receive a satisfactory response, unfortunately a new off-grid
>> client had already purchased an entire rack of them before consulting with
>> me. Our county AHJ is very strict. I can't risk recommending or installing
>> a system that would fail inspection. Here in Colorado they often even cross
>> check the altitude ratings on all inverters. (sorry Schneider XW-Pro that I
>> like so much, limit on your spec sheet is 2000m altitude)
>>
>> Signature Solar provided the usual NRTL stamp for UL 1741SA etc etc on
>> the EG4 rack batteries, then also a UL 9540A testing certificate that they
>> said should be sufficient, and it disturbed me that they did not seem to
>> understand that UL 9540A is NOT a listing - it's a fire-resistance test
>> that an ESS manufacturer can use as a document to help obtain their actual
>> UL9540 listing, and also gain exemptions to spacing and other
>> requirements....but from my understanding it's NOT an actual UL or NRTL
>> listing to UL 9540. When I inquired about that, Signature Solar stopped
>> communicating with me.
>>
>> I'm pretty sure my understanding of UL 9540 listing vs. 9540A testing is
>> correct, but I would appreciate any input before again gently confronting
>> both AHJs and manufacturers.
>>
>> Dan Fink
>> Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC
>> IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation
>> NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector
>> NABCEP PV Associate
>> d <dan.fink at greendustrialtraining.com>anbob88 at gmail.com
>> 970-672-4342
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
>> other:
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
> other:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
> other:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20240217/6c9c4fbe/attachment.htm>