[RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC interpretation/guidance?

Fri Nov 10 05:50:26 PST 2023

Mine was a roof mount. We had very few SolarWorld projects. In fact, this
might be our only one.

On Fri, Nov 10, 2023, 8:10 AM Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I'd be curious to know of the connector failures y'all have experienced,
> were the majority of these roof mounts?
> Just wondering if with better air flow like that of a pole/ground mount,
> if that helped to minimize connector failure.
>
> Christopher
>
> On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 1:21 AM Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Ray,
>>
>>             Exactly the same thing happened for me on a ground mount
>> system, 3500 feet elevation the the Sierras so open cooler air, fully
>> engaged MC4 factory connectors PV to PV connectors with SW285's, not
>> passing current, melted.  No attempt to contact SW just made up new
>> connectors.
>>
>>             My calculation is with anything that is no doubt made up by
>> the bazillion with a machine (connectors, light bulbs, pencils, chicken
>> nuggets, etc) you're going to get some duds.  In 20+ years of installing
>> PVs with factory made-up connectors, I've only seen this happen 2-3 times.
>> Installing in the mountains we no doubt use ground mount much more often
>> than most installs in urban areas which would make a hot, melted connector
>> possibly more of an issue a couple inches above a comp or wood roof.  We've
>> never seen any connectors fail beyond the melted/deformed but still
>> "contained" stage .
>>
>>             Back when SW was first transitioning from one connector to
>> another, I remember them saying they (I think it was UTX and MC or was it
>> UTX and Amphenol?) were compatible.  We NEVER mixed connectors despite
>> their claim.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> Feather River Solar Electric
>> 4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
>> 5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
>> Taylorsville, CA  95983
>> 530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
>> CA. C10 Lic # 874049
>> Solar Powered since 1982
>> Home of the Sunny Side Up
>>
>> On 11/9/2023 4:31 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>
>> I'm trying to find a pic to post, but they were MC4 connectors, not the
>> UTX.
>>
>> Ray
>> On 11/9/2023 4:57 PM, Brian Mehalic wrote:
>>
>> Are they the Amohenol UTX connectors? SW had a recall on them, sounds
>> like about the right timeframe.
>>
>> BREAKING: SolarWorld recalls PV modules with Amphenol connectors
>> <https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/>
>> pv-magazine-usa.com
>> <https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/>
>>
>> <https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/>
>>
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> On Nov 9, 2023, at 4:47 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches
>> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> 12 Ga wire is not going to catch on fire, but the MC connectors might.  I
>> just went back on a 7 yr old Solarworld install, and had a bad series MC
>> connector (module to module).  It got quite crispy, deforming and bubbling
>> the plastic on both sides of the connection.  It was still passing current;
>> I didn't get a chance to measure the volt drop.  It was completely plugged
>> in, so not an installation issue.
>>
>> This was not one of our connectors made up in the field, these were
>> Solarworld factory connectors on both sides, same model modules.  That also
>> means no mismatch of "MC4" connector type.
>>
>> 10+ amps continuous, moist environment, 30F+  hotter than ambient temp,
>> all are tough on connectors.  I predict more connector failures as module
>> current ratings increase.
>>
>> Ray Walters
>> Remote Solar
>> On 11/9/2023 3:02 PM, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>
>> Good luck trying to convince your customer that their house caught on
>> fire because of a manufacturers flaw, and you have no responsibility for it…
>>
>> It may be an out to shift the blame, but it only makes everybody get some
>> on them…
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org> *On Behalf Of *William
>> Miller via RE-wrenches
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 08, 2023 12:14 PM
>> *To:* RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>> *Cc:* William Miller <william at millersolar.com> <william at millersolar.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC
>> interpretation/guidance?
>>
>>
>>
>> George:
>>
>>
>>
>> Appliance manufacturers have their own requirements that are not the same
>> as the NEC requirements.  As long as you are not modifying the manufactured
>> assembly you are not responsible for compliance of that appliance.  By
>> appliance, I mean the solar module, microinverter, etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> William Miller
>>
>>
>>
>> Miller Solar
>>
>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>>
>> 805-438-5600
>>
>> www.millersolar.com
>>
>> CA Lic. 773985
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
>> Behalf Of *George McClellan via RE-wrenches
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 8, 2023 9:06 AM
>> *To:* RE-wrenches
>> *Cc:* George McClellan
>> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC
>> interpretation/guidance?
>>
>>
>>
>> Team;
>>
>>
>>
>> With the move to larger cells, some modules have an Isc that is pushing
>> the limits of 12 AWG wire.  If I apply the rule of 156% (or 125% solar
>> derate*125% continuous load derate) to an 18 Amp Isc module this will
>> exceed the 25A that a 12 AWG wire can carry.  I understand that the
>> homeruns will need to be a larger AWG (10 ga), but do the solar module
>> cables (from junction box to MC4) also need to be larger?  Any guidance or
>> reference material would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thx,
>>
>>
>>
>> George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC
>>
>> 330 James Way Ste 150 | Pismo Beach, CA 93449 | USA
>>
>> Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104
>>
>> www.recgroup.com | george.mcclellan at recgroup.com
>> <shannon.kent at recgroup.com>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
> --
>
> Chris Schaefer’s
>
>
> *Tel 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 *
> *5115 S Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com
> <http://www.solarandwindfx.com> ~ E-mail: chris at solarandwindfx.com
> <chris at solarandwindfx.com>*
>
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